Ok, so.. In discussing the flathead 6 (218/230) motors in most 1940's & early 50's molars, A lot of people on here mention upgrading the boat anchor OEM 3 speed trans to a T5-5speed. I've noticed that everyone makes a point to say "out of an S10"....... So, ------ why is the S10 T5 so special? Why not a T5 out of a mid 80's mustang or some other vehicle? That trans was used in many makes n models .. Just curious
Read it, learn it, live it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tech-ultimate-t-5-article.171291/
I would really think about this conversion and know what T5 you may need. The gear spread/ratios etc, vary, so know what you are getting involved in ahead of time. There is another option, and it's 100% Mopar too. You can use a Chrysler A833 4 spd od trans, 3.09, 1.68, 1.0, .71 All you need is a simple adapter plate, new clutch disc, and of course a driveshaft change/upgrade. You will need to either swap in a modern diff, or figure out a way to have an ebrake, but with the T5 you would have to do the same. The A833 4spd OD trans 1975-86, Volares, Aspens, Dodge Trucks/vans etc. Here is a pic of the simple quality built adapter plate, they are approximately $140 USD. Contac hitek on this forum for further details
One of the many details that you have to decide on is the shifter location and probably the reason for the s10 application. The other item to consider is whether or not a top-shift has any benefit over a side shift arrangement. Certainly, if you go with the Mopar A-833 od you must also get the shift linkage with the trans as it is a bit different than the 'normal' 4-spd. Lastly, consider that the t-5 is a 4+1 and the A-833 is a 3+1. Does that make one better than the other for your ride? Plan on installing a Cherokee or Explorer rear axle. .
The T5 from the S10 has the longest of the input shafts a**** the common T5's (less a few weird ones). This better accommodates the thickness of an adapter plate. The shifter position is the farthest forward of any T5, except for those with a remote shifter. That is a nice plus, but not the real reason.
Reason to use a pickup or van trans is the shifter is in a different place than camaro or mustang. Farther forward and fits in old cars and trucks better.
Sure, but even if you put an S10 tail housing and shift rail on a Camaro T5, it won't work, because the input shaft will not reach the pilot bushing, and the clutch disc splines will be in free-air.
Have you ever done this conversion Rusty? If so how do you like it? Please don't quote any Don Coatney T5 stories, as I have heard enough of them..
I looked through the t-5 tech thread and I did not see any reference to major shaft length issues. Can you post the various measurements? .
No good if your clutch is half-way on the splines, and the shaft pilot is not in the pilot bearing. An S10 T5 has a 7.2" input shaft stickout(case-to-tip). A GMC Safari/Chevy Astro Van T5 (if you can find one) has a 6.5" input shaft stickout, same as the Camaro/Firebird V8, and "cl***ic" GM 3/4-speeds.
I would suggest going to p15-p24.com. It is to early Mopars what HAMB is to traditional hot rods. This conversion is very common, and all the info you need can be found in a few minutes.
While it is somewhat common, and is certainly easier to do with the truck bell housing. I strongly recommend anyone contemplating this conversion, do their homework prior to making any big plans. You need to check out gear ratios, some were built for low torque 4 cylinders, and are not as well suited for this application. The Borg and Warner R10 3 spd overdrive is a very nice option, this has the ebrake on the tail of the trans as other Mopar applications. The problem is they have gotten quite pricey over the last 10 years, but they are nice. 1 Dude on P15 D24 used a Toyo Kogyo TK5 trans, and is very happy with his results, have a read, http://p15-d24.com/topic/17737-5-speed-not-t5/page-1?hl=+other +spd +trans
Ok, ok... Then let me ask this, what trans was factory placed behind a 230 thunderbolt ? I believe the motor would come from an early 50's desoto
You mean "Spitfire", they were 250 and 265 ci 25 inch flathead engines, with a M5 or M6 semi auto 4 spd trans, being lo range and high range, it was used in conjunction with a Fluid Drive coupler, and was a semi-auto style trans...
Go over on the P15-d24 board and get hold of Don Coatney. He has driven a t5 behind a 251 for many years. He has driven all over the US, He knows all about this change over. Hope this helps.
There are many others who have done this on that board other than Coatney. Infact he has not driven the car for a few years, the car is up for sale, and a complete re-wiring has not been finished. I would go to www.p15-d24.com and register, then search for all the info on this topic. You will soon find out all the pros and cons of this swap, as well as other options. Good Luck...
I gave up on the idea of a T-5 for my 33 Tudor with a 53 hemi motor. The S-10 has the tailshaft with the shift tower a lot further forward than the Camero item, that's cool, but the longer input shaft makes special spacer on bell housing a must. So buy both used Camero and a used S-10 units and put the two together so the shift lever is not so far back and the unit would have the 'proper' input shaft? To hell with that idea. Next problem is that [IN MY CASE] a rather low 1st. gear ratio is necessary [the 241 hemi is only about 15 c.i. more than the original flathead]. Finding and identifying what ya need for first gear at a wrecking yard is not very easy. With a bigger motor a ratio too low will mean you'll be shifting into second before you cross the intersection. Next there is the problem of the 5th gear overdrive ratio. They made a number of overdrive ratios and they were used willy-nilly in all sorts of vehicles. If too little of a step-up the usefulness is limited. WORSE if a little to high for the rear axle ratio you are using [and available engine torque] and it could end up being as useful as a mop with a rope handle. I ran a lot of numbers using tire dia., axle ratio, % of overdrive and expected torque at different revs and said forget it....bought a Richmond T-10 and one of those nice T&F shifters that puts the shifter on top of gear case and it comes out of the floor in the 'right' place. Plus...none of them T-5s are very strong.
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