History Proper Front Suspension for a Traditional Rod ?

Part of the problem is who is defining 'traditional'. Ryan neatly sidesteps the issue by defining it as 'period correct', which is a considerably more elastic term. The 'purist' traditionalist's want to apply 'rules' but it's always been the 'outside the box' innovators who drove hot rodding ahead. That's not to say that seeing this particular car makes it OK to install a M2 front end on an open-wheel Deuce, but does illustrate the fact that more than a few 'different' ideas were tried and not all were failures, even if the idea didn't get 'general' acceptance. Even some of the failures may bear a second look, as the idea may have been good, just the execution was poor or the technology hadn't quite caught up yet. Just because something wasn't 'common' or 'commonly done' doesn't rule it out as 'period correct'; the pic of Ak's roadster is proof of that.

 

The fact that this is controversial and causes heated debate is a good enough reason to build it this way'
The alternative is a 350/350 combo in a 'glass "streetbeast" which doesn't get a 2nd glance

 

Thankyou for those intelligent and constructive comments El Scotto and also,The Crazy one..
Sort of what I wanted to say but haven't quite got the hang of the H.A.M.B and the way some very passionate Old School people react . Only new here so hopefully will be on track with a bit more interaction with the mixture of people here.
Cheers

 

^^^^^^^glad you posted this thread. Stimulated some thoughtful commentary...on both 'sides' of the subject.

Ray

 

Thanks Ray.
You are right with that one.. Lol.
I have noticed that X38, 52box and Dad-dud have not apologised for assuming and commenting that I have no idea about straight front axles and old engines.
My Father and I raced and built over 30 good straight front axle race cars here in New Zealand back in the good days when you had to have a bit of knowledge and make do with what you could from Auto dismantling yards and make your own shit. We didn't have off the shelf aftermarket American racing parts until the mid 1990's so I think we done pretty well agaist the guys who built cars with big $$$ and frequent buying trips to the States for stuff to try compete with our old Fords built in the shed at home.
We had many Regional placings and titles with those straight front axle cars.
Also, in the mid 1980's my dad had a 62 Fairlane street car with a 460 and straight front axle. Car looked pretty stock and was the only one about that we knew of as there were not many Gasser type cars here back when they were all the rage in the States.
I do like Ak's car though. Nice front end on it back then.

 

I have always admired Ak Miller's accomplishments and innovations. In his heyday, a degree of crudity was a lot more common than most of today's traditional fans realize or admit. Not unlike the difference in factory made vehicle's fit and finish in previous decades, compared to the highly refined production of today. So many of the current traditional enthusiasts weren't even alive in the period they want to emulate. They often have an idealized, but inaccurate, vision of how things were. One only needs to study period photos for a dose of reality.

Ray

 

I'm not going to apologise because I asked question, I didn't say you had no idea.

But you have established that you have no experience with early 30's Fords.

 

no way, too many emissions, "cruelty" etc.

 

When I was born , Dad came and pick my Mother and I up from the hospital in his 34 Ford Tudor and he has a photo of Mum holding me in front of it in the driveway. He has another photo of it two weeks later with no front gaurds, straight copper pipes, no hood and the motor and wheels spray painted silver (ethnic chrome). It started from there and after him owning and modifying over 100 early Ford V8's , over 100 55 to 65 Customlines, Fairlanes and Galaxies etc plus running the 3 different dismantlers specialising in Ford V8's and Australian Fords and, myself owning over 300 Ford Falcons and Fairlanes since obtaining my Drivers licenceI think you can see what I'm thinking about your assumptions.
Good to have your input into the thread though as it has got a few people interested.
Cheers.

 

I'm not making assumptions. I repeat, I only asked a question. And you have supplied further family history.

And I am done with this thread.

 

Hey fhucket, welcome to the HAMB........cool thread. JW

 

This thread got a little side tracked.

I love the Ak Miller roadster, as well as I love the niekampf rod and the Spurgin/Giovanni roadster, al though I like the early version of the S/G roadster.

There is always room to be a little odd, and in the big world of hot rodding I've found a little corner when I feel at home, right between Dry lake racers, era perfect rods and east coast rods. And a ones in a while a Hawaii styled rod (channeled, sectioned and full fendered) or a sports rod, and to me that are all welcome and should be acknowledged as a proper hot rod.

So to me the 1932 Ford Roadster with a 1941 Chevy IFS front end, can be done.
And if you feel like doing one, so do one, and feel the respect for the work you do. But this is off to a bad start. Some will love it despite the front end, someone will love it because of it and someone will just hate it.
The car would be era perfect, and there by it can slip in to this place, despite not being traditional.

But there is a lot of things that are forgotten and ignore in the world of hot rods.
There is a thread called: 50s era perfect hot rods, there are a lot of nice cars, that you most likely will ever see getting build on here. Despite it would be nice to se them.
@Jim sibley started a thread about: what is a real hot rod.

That is some interesting stuff on there too, and a lot of pics.

To me the Ak Miller roadster is a piece of history that needs to be acknowledged for its place in history, and there should be a place where one could go and see a replica and feel the wine of lake engineerity at its finest.

And I most confess if you put the 1941 Chevy frontend, beside a early knee action (34-37), a corvair and a mustang 2 frontend and modern aftermarket M2. The will always come out on the visual top! To me at least.

Just my two cents.

 

And of course Ak Miller wasn't the only innovator. If you add together all the guys trying weird stuff at the time, the total wouldn't be trivial. So, what they were doing wasn't "commonly done", but the normal way was perhaps, comparatively speaking, not really quite as common as all that.

 

Doesn't make a baby either. That's up to the stork...

 

Traditional or not, it's still ugly. Notice that Ak later built a front fairing to hide the monstrosity. All of us spend too much time building these cars to make them ugly on purpose. Build a good looking car.

 

When I saw the picture, I mistakenly thought it was something British. Visually, that is very close to the MG suspension design first used on the 1947 Y-type, then later on the TD, TF, MGA, and MGB. On the MGB the crossmember is removable. With the lever action shocks they look very vintage and better than a Corvair. This one has wire wheels and discs. Others might have steel wheels and the older versions could have drums.

 

I personally would like to know enough about El Caballo de Hierro to clone it or at least introduce certain aspects of it into a rod. That would make a good thread everyone [posting pics of or knowledge of the car.

The knee action suspension like the Corvair suspension never really caught on because it was uncomely. The fact that someone used it on a lakes racer is certainly no excuse to call a Mustang II suspension traditional which is probably the intended direction of this thread. If I was building a lakes racer and the roadster in question was my inspiration I would certainly chase down an old GM knee action suspension and use it.

We have a dilemma when building traditional rods, what was common and what was not common. Let me use a different example than the GM knee action. In the early '60s some cars that I know of got disc brakes sourced from Euro cars with discs and later Studebaker discs. Now we consider that part of history to fall into traditional hot rodding. The question becomes is it traditional as in commonly done by the average hot rodder or is it just something that got done by a select few, and does the fact that someone did it make it traditional?

For a clue you should maybe look at post #12 then ruminate for a while.

 

These fellows and perhaps some of the ladies of the time went with their hearts and wayward thinking. I wonder how that thing rode and performed.
Perhaps GM had an edge over Ford in this department.
Yes it may not be as visually appealing as the I beam it replaced.
A fancy cowling or shroud could have covered it albiet that did not happen.
A.K. interestingly must have faced an onslaught of scrutiny then and is probably having a chuckle 6ft under knowing that feathers are still being ruffled today.
There is a saying that pics or it didn't happen...well there is...so it did and it was hotrod history in the HAMB period of coverage. A.K. certainly wasn't the only one so its a contested tradition without a lot of fanfare. So be it...

 

Not homogenized!

 

We need an "applause" smiley... Oh yea, and Ak WAS a rebel. He ran chevy hubcaps on it too...

For the OP, Ak Millers roadster is only "shocking" or "revelatory" to you. Most of us on here have been aware of it literally for decades. I'll see 3 winder Larry and raise...ZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

Fhucket, if you "like" this, you clearly arent getting the hidden message in it...Hes not JUST talking about racing here, hes using it as what we call a "metaphor"....hint, hint, hint...

 

Too right mate !!
Everyone should agree with your comment ...even a one eyed aussie should...;-)

 

You are called Falcon George man. Hidden messages or any other 'trick' you come up with goes over my head mate... With a name like FALCON George..... I like anything you do or say. No worries mate

 

Ah.... hell. I'll stop sugar coating it. The front suspension on that car looks like shit. The ONLY reason it could be considered interesting is due to the famous man who ran it for a while. If someone rolled up to The Round-up, with that suspension set up, the glares and cat calls would be heard for miles. Whether it road like a Cadillac or not.

Not all the shit from 60 years ago can be called "traditional". It was shit then and it's shit now.

 

Its still traditional. like cooking with buffalo chips, common on the planes during the exodus toward the west. It still left a bad taste in your mouth.

 

If ya like it use it, if ya don't then don't !
End of story! (and drama)

 

You know, my attitude might be a little different if someone showed up with a build thread with a '32 with early chevy control arms. If someone called him out, hell, I would probably post a pic of Ak Millers car myself, like I did on another thread about 6-8 months ago.
But to post a pic of Ak Millers car thinking you are "calling out" the hard-core traditional crowd on here?? REALLY???
I count myself in the hard-core period correct crowd on here, and am proud to do so. And the first time I saw a pic of Ak Millers car with the chevy front end in it was about 1972...
As Bruce said, YAWN....

 

Had to get validation from the cool kids. That's what all this was really about.