I cant find my original post so I will make this simple compared to my previous topic that doesn't seem to be on here. I want to ask is going from a 2150 2bbl autolite carburetor to a 600 CFM Holley 4180 4bbl carb too much for a stock 302? The engine options were 2bbls only in this year but its been rebuilt and I am looking at squeezing some more performance and power out of it in the mean time. My goal was to swap a 4bbl 302 intake manifold on a Ford factory one along with proper spacer plate and a Holley 4180 4bbl as found on the 351W and 460 engines. This would be used till I have the time to build up my 332/347 stroker for this truck then I would swap the intake and carb over to that one. So if this will not hurt my performance and actually improve performance on my stock 302 as well as be adequate for a street stroker build I would like to know. I have a good deal on a 4180 Holley that needs to be rebuilt but looks clean but don't want to buy it nor waste my time with doing this swap if its going to make the engine sluggish and hesitate and just generally run worse than it does right now.
I guess you missed seeing the good replies to your question on the thread that got deleted because it's about some later model truck...???? I think the general consensus was that you might want to stick with the 2bbl for now and get a good performance carb if you build a performance engine later on.
Didn't know there was a rule about years that could be talked on here. Anyways, I didn't see any replies I made the post then was out for the rest of the day then I came back later at night only to not see it. I will do that, I just found a good deal on a 4180 for $62 that needs to be rebuilt and it looked clean. Figured that coupled with the manifold I found for under $50 I could do the swap for under $200 but didn't want to invest time if it would result in a decrease in drivability and performance. No big deal how ever, I had already planned on a Edelbrock 600 vac secondary for my stroker build down the road along with a Edelbrock Performer manifold with a phelonic 1" spacer to do away with the EGR valve.
You've been here since 2005 and you've never seen this? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-h-a-m-b-rules-guidelines.44274/
Nope I did not. I joined back in 05 made a few posts pertaining to my '63 didn't really get any answers to my questions and then I left till this past year when I remembered I had an account here. Sure I joined back in 05, but I have only officially been on here active maybe 7 months.
The 600 holley will work fine on a stock 289/302 ford motor. They came stock with autolite 4bbl. carbs, and ran fine, i belive they were rated at 525cfm. The holley carb is a vacum secondary carb so dialed in right it should only open the secondaries when the motor can handle the extra fuel. The only problem i see is it might be a bit small for a stroker sbf, generally i would run a 650 double pumper.
Hard to have a rule that people read the rules when people don't even know the rules. Its a giant circle because as I said I haven't been on here long, so what I didn't read the rules, who reads rules on anything, its like expecting people to read the user terms on computer popups people just click through the pages of terms and don't even read it. Cant expect people to read the rules on here just the same. In any case it doesn't matter, I really don't make many posts on here so no need to break balls over something so trivial over if I read the rules or not.
Now ya know And I would also just run the 2 BBl until you get to your final motor destination. That Holley 4180 is not a good choice for your motor
That's what I figured would be the secondaries would never open up till it was required for the extra fuel. But I am also a little concerned about part throttle responsiveness. I barely have to touch the throttle to feel acceleration. Hate to lose that by going with a bigger carburetor and resulting in more sluggish feeling throttle. On the stroker, it might be, but the cam would be quite small as it would be a street stroker for daily use. Only reason for the stroker would be to build more bottom end torque without having to upgrade to a 351w which would require more money as now I have to start replacing the front drive brackets for 351w versions.
That I do. As far as the 4180 goes, I already removed it from my watch list on ebay. I wont be wasting money I don't have on something that really wont work like I want it to. I will just do like I had originally planned and just get a good 600 cfm vac secondary Edelbrock carb and be done. Sure I could go with Holley as they can make more power but what I like about Edelbrock is their reliability, don't have to always tune on them, set them and they just work.
What year 302? I built my stock 302 with an Edelbrock 500 and it ran great. After I swapped in GT40 heads and an Edelbrock RPM cam it still ran great but ran out of breath around 5000 RPMS. I switched to a 600 and gained about 1000 rpm on the top end.
Actually a Holley 4160 would work just fine on the motor. The vac secondaries can be adjusted by changing the springs if you feel the need for secondaires sooner or later than they way it comes in the box. Even a stock 302 will run just fine with one. A lot I suppose depends on what you are using for an intake. But I am a little anal about matching the intake with the carb in question or vice versa. I am not so anal about the rules, I am terrible with rules. But I suppose if someone just walked into the garage and started smoking meth I would get a little upset about it, I don't allow meth heads in my garage. Well this is Ryan's garage, maybe he would like me to at least try and not cross too many of the lines.
I'd hesitate (and your 302 may as well) to put a 600 on one of those 120-140hp 302 versions from the mid 70s. One cool thing about Edelbrock's 1403/4 (500 CFM) and the 1405/6 (600CFM) is that the only differences between 500 and 600 CFM are the primary venturi boosters, the main jets, and the metering rods. The castings, butterflies, and secondaries are identical. You can swap back-and-forth between the two in a matter of minutes if you can get your hands on the spare parts. I got a junk core (for free!) just for the spare parts.
The bottom line is, the rules apply, whether or not you knew or read them. If the parts in question are on a vehicle that is not appropriate for the rules of this board, just leave those details out. The "meat" of your thread is valid. Stick with that. If you want a 4-barrel, and it is and will remain stock, put a 500cfm Edelbrock on it. Who cares if it does not have extreme power between 5000 and 6000rpm, if you are spending all of your time at 1500 to 2500rpm?
Every time I read someone saying how "fiddley" holley carbs are [or any brand for that matter] I shake my head.. I've been messing w/carbs for over 50 years & have never found 1 brand any more difficult to work with than any other , they all have individual characteristics but they're just lumps , I always figured you needed to be smarter than a lump !! dave
So if you called it a 289 then it would meet the rules? Nobody will know the difference when they walk up and see it. As Beaner said we do not know what is inside the block so hard to tell if 600 is too big or not.
That is a big thing I am trying to do, with the gears I am running which I am not going to change and the transmission I am running which I am also not changing and the tires I am running which like the previous will not change for smaller size tires, I cruise the city at 1500 to 1750 rpm between 40 and 50 mph. Highway is 2000 rpm @ 60 mph on up to 70-75 mph @ 2500 rpm. So for me for normal driving for me my rpm is never over 3,000 for normal driving. Now wide open throttle acceleration that is different the transmission which if I play with the vacuum modulator I could make it shift a little later but I shift out of passing gear right at to just after 4,000 rpm. So for me anything over 4,000 rpm is useless. That's why I opted out of the Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold as that one is advertised for 1500 to 6500 rpm and I decided if I went aftermarket I would use a plain Performer for Idle to 5,000 rpm which is ideal for me. Now the whole point is if I can get a setup that I can throw on now to liven the engine up some that I can also reuse on the 332/347 stroker I have planned out that I want to build to replace this engine. So far for this stroker I am looking at aluminum heads, 9.5:1 to 10.5:1 static compression, I also picked out a few cams that are factory roller design but they were for the most part ment to build hp and trq down in the low and midrange of the rpm power band. My whole goal for the build would be to have the engine run as if its stock as far as idle quality goes and as far as exhaust note goes. But I also want it to make in the neighborhood of 300 to 400 ft lbs of trq. I think with a stroker build with the higher compression with the use of aluminum heads I think it can be done quite easily with the proper setup. With this in mind the engine would still maintain a 5,000 rpm redline as its highly doubtful the transmission shift point will change and start shifting at 4,500 or even 5,000 rpm. So I figured a 600 CFM carb for a 332 to 347 CID displacement spinning up to a max of 5,000 rpm should be ideal for a street application. The holley I have personal experience with while it makes more power than a edelbrock, I am always having to make adjustments on it to keep it running where its supposed to. Now that compared to my stock 2150 carb, I set the thing over a year ago when I did a tune up, before then the last time the adjustments were touched on the carb was when it was installed over 10 years ago out of the box. So for this application I want something that can be set and forgotten about. My personal experience and it could be because the holley is on a built up 283 and that is the reason why I had to make adjustments all the time on it. If it would on a stock like stroker build without having to have adjustments made on a fairly regular schedule then I would love to run a Holley. I personally love Holley carbs but for something I drive every day I want it to work and work like it did the day before without having to get upset cause the thing is running a little rough today and then runs silky smooth a few days later. I saw it mentioned somewhere about manifolds and I don't see it now but I am still on the fence for manifolds. First choice would be a Edelbrock Performer. But this manifold would require the use of an adapter bracket to mount my factory throttle cable to position it for use with the carb. Might be hard to accomplish this as well as retaining the factory cruise chain attachment as well. My other option was since the rpm range of the engine is so low I could opt for a factory manifold casting and should not hurt performance in the rpm band that I will be operating in. This would also hopefully allow me to retain brackets that are currently functional without modifications.
To be quite honest I do not know what is in the engine, the engine was rebuilt back in '93 the block was trashed so the block was a rebuilt short block that the engine shop bought from a supplier and they just rebuild the oem heads and threw it together. So I would say it is safe to assume its a stock 302 or pretty damn close to stock. Couldn't say if its been bored or not though.
I would get the manifold that you want, now, but get the smaller carburetor. Find a used one, and sell it when you are done. As for your rear-end gears, they are too tall, given your tire size. I would swap those for lower ones. If the rear end is a 9", that is pretty easy. You can get a whole pumpkin in a yard, all you need is to match the axle shaft splines. Your city cruise RPM's are just too low. If not, keep the carburetor small. Smaller carburetors meter fuel better at lower engine speeds.
I agree on the rear end ratio being too low, with the 3 inch stroke and those gears you will be doing 90- 100 mph before it wakes up. JW
The Jalopy Journal
