200r4 vs. 700r4 in 54 chevy

You might be happier with a rearend from a S10 4x4. The S10 4x4 pickups had overdrives so they're going to be geared a bit better to work with your overdrive of choice. It's also going to be the exact width as your stocker instead of 2 inches wider. The wider rear wont be an issue unless you're wanting to get real low or run skirts.

 

We've got a '53 Chevy with a 305 and 200R from an '89 Caprice. Was a TBI motor, but now a Holley 4bbl and V-belt setup. The 200R4 fit nice, and the mount was easy to make. It's got an '80 Camaro 10-bolt rear, new driveshaft, and a universal floor mount shifter. All I'm lacking is a speedo cable and the Torque Converter Lock Up Switch.

The car should be on the road soon so I can't give you any recommendations, but from everyone I've talked to, the transmission should be fine for what we're doing with the car...daily driving.

I'll probably grab the lock-up switch from Rebel Wire here on the HAMB.

 

wel I just talked to the guy with the 700r4 he says it's a fresh rebuild anybody know if it will be a tight squeeze or if I will have to cut into my tunnel?

 

I have an 85 Caprice 305 overdrive, anyone know how to tell if its a 200r or 700r without having up on a hoist??

 

There are many of us listening........ I too am wanting to change the TH350 out of my 34 Sedan to a 200r4 and have no idea how to tell the differences between any Chevy Tranny. It has been suggested by numerous people for me to make the switch after riding in the car.

I did some research and this is what I came up with.

http://forums.carcraft.com/70/6370623/general-car-craft-discussion/th350-to-200r4-swap/index.html
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/200r4-vs-4l80-vs-700r4-vs-th350-19216.html
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/700r4-vs-th350-64799.html
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-96947.html
http://www.camaros.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-51299.html
http://www.oldspower.com/vb/archive/index.php?t-4425.html

Being CHEVY unknowledgable, can someone suggets what vheicles to pull a 200r4 from and what to look for if they are in a pile of already pulled trannys to get a 1987-91 core and what all do I need to try to get with it (filler tube, wiring, shifter brackets, TV cable??)? When I googled "how to identify a 200r4" this thread was Google's 1st choice! How will I know that I have a 200r4 vs a 4L80. Pictures would be great also if anyone happens to have them. Thanks.

 

200R4s were used in Buick Grand Nationals, Monte Carlos, El Caminos, Cutlasses, and other 1984-1991 GM intermediate cars. None of these cars were ever considered slouches. Most had a 4.3L V6, 305 or 350 in them and they did just fine with the 200R4. I'm putting the 200R4 behind my 292 inliner. I could have opted for any trans, but I picked the 200R4 because they are plentiful and you can get them for dirt cheap in good condition.

Just post a wanted ad on craigslist and you will see them come out of the woodwork people damn near want to give them away. They are just as easy to get parts for as a 700R4 and use many of the same aftermarket parts. They can even use the early 700R4 torque converters with 27 spline.

I have heard many stories of them being able to consistently endure up 625hp with little modification.

I picked the 200R4 because it has a lower first gear, which to me means that the motor is going to have to provide less output to get going from a stop. Likewise it has a better overdrive, which means better efficiency at highway speeds. It's pretty much the same size as a Th-350 so it's not real big.

I bought the TCI lockup kit because everybody that has them says that they are great. I haven't heard any complaints yet. The kit has an option to add switches to be able to have more control over the system. You can opt to lock up in 2nd and 3rd as well if you want. Likewise you can add a switch to turn lock-up off all together. IT costs about $80 which is pretty much the middle of the road as far as these typse of kits are concerned.

If you are out looking for a 200R4 hope to get lucky and find one out of a Grand National. They had different valve bodies that were made for increased performance.

This link may help: http://www.gmautomatictransmissions.com/2004R_transmission.php

PS- I don't think there is anything wrong with the 700R4. I just chose the 200R4 because it is slightly more efficient, compact in size, cheap to obtain.

PPS- I have a couple 200R4 cores I'd sell. I'm also willing to part them out. I have a few stock torque converters, speedo driven gears, dipstick tubes, Transgo shift kit, valve bodies, etc. Willing to take requests via PM

 

Some times on the upper part of the bellhousing there is a tag with a bar code and a number, on a 700R4 I googled that number and came up with the year and application,if it's been rebuilt or painted it may be missing.

 

Found this...

 

i've got a 700 in my 57 chevy. 410 horse 355. it's an 87 iroc-z transmission. had it rebuilt with shift kit, corvette servo, 2000 stall (stock corvette converter). he put the automatic lock up kit in at my request. he told me i wouldn't like it but i insisted. in town or on the highway when it hit overdrive and converter egaged it was like i threw out an anchor. it sucked bad. i took the wire for the lock-up out of the fuse box and now it works like a champ. i'm running a stock rear end with high way gears. when i get the 9in in with the 3.73's i'll put a switch on the converter and try it again.

with your 307 either transmission will be fine strength wise. a mild shift kit should be fine. i wouldn't sweat it too much. find the best deal on either one and put it in. if you feel comfortable with the rebuild status on the 700 for $300 i'd go with that. sounds like a good deal to me. with the 700 you'll have to move your cross member back a couple of inches or so and you'll have to get a shorter drive shaft or have yours cut down and balanced like i did.

 

I have a 200r4 behind a 292 L6 in the Hup. Its hard to beat out of the hole. Most times I'm at least half a block away before anyone else has crossed an intersection. I get around 20 mpg around town with a somewhat lead foot and 25 hwy easy. Here's a link that might be helpful ID'ing trannies:
http://www.nastyz28.com/chevy-transmission-identification.php

 

So you're running it in OD without the converter locking up.
Must not drive it much, you're well on your way to needing a converter and a transmission rebuild. Some of the later ones will last longer without the converter locking in OD, but it all ends the same...

 

If you didn't need the lock-up they wouldn't have wasted their time designing it in the first place. You should be running a lock-up of some sort.

410hp...on a street car....with a highway gear? What's the point? 410hp out of a 355ci must mean you've got a pretty beefy cam. One well suited for use at a much higher RPM range. So your lower end suffers from the beginning, then you throw a highway gear on a motor that is built for higher rpm range forcing the RPM range to stay low where the motor is least powerful, then wonder why it feels like your are throwing out an anchor when you go into overdrive?

Sounds like instead of considering your lock-up you need to reconsider your drivetrain setup and gearing issues. Perhaps have the engine dyno-ed and see where you are making horsepower torque and aim for that RPM operating range. Throwing a highway gear on doesn't necessarily mean better milage or efficiency. Throw a vacuum gauge on that motor and drive it around and see what's really going down.

 

Oldsrocket and zman are right on with their advice about locking the converter. Without locking up you are producing a lot of heat. If you had a trans temp gauge I think you would be surprised by how hot it's running. Heat is one of the biggest killers of an automatic trans. For the record a long-tail T-350 and a 700R4 are only 1/8" difference in length so no need for a new drive-shaft. I used to have a long T-350 in my 41 cpe but went with a 700R. I only had to move the trans mount rearward, 2" if I remember right. This has been my set-up for 50,000 mi. behind a 425hp/454. With 3.42 gear and 255/60 tire it has produced as high as 19.6 mpg. A 3.42 gear with this size tire is about as low numerically as you would want to go. Otherwise you're lugging the motor.

 

I would definitely go with the 2004R if you are going with an aftermarket unit. All of the original weaknesses have been worked out, so if you aren't going with an original you will be fine. The 2004R also has the benefit of being in a smaller case, so if it's tight in there it could make the difference in whether or not you'll have to modify the tunnel. If you do end up looking at swap meets or craigslist, make sure you can identify the 700R4.

 

The 700R4 is a T350 modified with an OD. The 2004R is a stand alone 3 speed OD transmission.

I am not absolutely sure but I believe that the 200 has a lower 1st gear than the 700. The early 700 had a weak front pump and sprag, but overall it is the better choice for a heavier with a fair amount of torque.

 

I really like the 200R4. Better gear ratios, cheaper, just as strong. The rap on that tranny is it came on BOPs, whereas the sexy 7004R came on Corvettes. I have put the former into 3 cars and they work great. In fact the last one was on a 307 in my grandson's '59 Elky (see picture. yellow mark shows how far rear mount had to be moved from PowerGlide spot). And as mentioned above, GN Buicks put out a lot of power and the 200R4 is the standard tranny there. They always need a new stator shaft (the factory splines are always chewed up. Easy to spot when a new one is needed and pretty cheap fix). rumor is they need a new clutch drum too but I have never needed one. Probably applies w/ +400hp engines. Also mandatory is a BowTie Overdrives throttle adjustment for the specific carb being run.

 

LOL They won't handle 400+ HP stock. We proved that last year @ MOKAN. But the tranny took a real beating before it gave up the ghost.

 

You have to ask yourself why GM never used a 200R4 behind anything bigger than a 307 Olds. No Corvettes, no big blocks, no 350s, not even a 305 IROC. 200R4 was used in the Turbo Regals and GNs, but they don't last long there after engine mods. True, the GN was the highest performance application stock but in truth the 200R4 in stock form is not all that strong. They do require a rebuild to use much power or you will shatter the insides. If you are going to build the 200R4 first then fine, just don't yank a used one out and expect it to last. They were never used in a Corvette with the CrossFire (205HP/290 Torque) or TPI IROC (195HP/295 torque) which was about the same power as a stock GN (200HP/300 torque)-much less a 250HP TPI Corvette. All of these applications got a 700R4.


I'm not saying don't use a 200R4. I am saying that it might not last long if you take a used one out of a tired V6 or 305 A-Body and put it in a heavy car with a 350/350 and trounce on it. I would do a 700R4. They got a bad reputation from early on, but if you get an '88 up core with the improved guts they last a long time. They also get a bad rap for swaps for people that didn't adjust the TV cable and burn them up fast. You should not start the engine until the TV cable is properly adjusted!! It is that important. The 4L60E that is still used today is a derivative of the 700R4 and they last a long time. I have one in my '01 Tahoe with 290K+ miles that has never been out. The 200R4 can be built to handle the power for sure, but a 700R4 can do it with a lot less mods. The current 4L60E shares some internals with some of the last 700R4 (4L60) transmissions. It does not share parts with a TH350. The 4L80E shares some parts with a TH400.

 

Since it was 8 year ago, I wonder if he ever figured out which was better, or just went the $300 route?

 

Yea, but guys just cannot resist the opportunity to share "knowledge" about 200R4's that they read on the internet....

 

Werd!!

 

Ok, I can't resist any longer... Here's what I learned on the internet about this transmission:
1) it's about the same size as a TH350
2) built with the right parts by the right person it can take a good bit of abuse
3) if the TV cable isn't adjusted properly you can burn one up going around the block

Anyway that's all I know about them. But is it -4r, or -r4? Seen it both ways on the net. Figure someone is right.
-Dave

 

Werd?

 

Woooooord. You wouldn't get it unless you watch lots of people who came "Straight out of Compton"

 

maybe he is trying to tell us he is going to Germany, but got interrupted?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werder_(Havel)

 

Actually I would mention what I think he was doing, but that would be drama, and I don't know him well enough to not like him yet. Let's just say that he is agreeing with you.

 

FWIW, I have one of each, both modified, I would take the 200R4 (or 200-4R whichever side of that meaningless internet debate you choose) every single time.

 

LOL I have a transmission book that probably has it right around here somewhere, if I haven't loaned it to someone. I can never remember and don't think that most people do, I just call it a 200R most of the time and whomever I am talking to usually knows what I am talking about. Of course I called an Allen wrench a pair of vise grips once and my buddy handed me the Allen wrench so I guess people are accustomed to me just calling things whatever comes to mind.

 

I have never had anyone not know what I was talking about when I called it a 200R4, but I have had internet smart-asses tell me GM calls it a 200-4R. And thats usually all they know about them...
I use both terms, depending on my mood. I'm fickle like that...

 

I just have a tendency to say whatever is in my head at the time. it is a fault that I have always had. Sometimes internet geniuses get all butt hurt over it, I usually don't put much stock in 'em and hope that they get over it, or not.

I am a watcher, I seldom forget, and when someone has their shit about 'em I place stock in what they have to say. Sometimes I get lucky and learn something of value.