I've been doing a bit of freshening up on my '60 292 (new timing set, carb, gaskets, etc.) and I thought I'd replace the valve seals on it since it was a bit smokey on start-up. I've looked it over and it appears that there is a larger rubber cup inside the spring itself. Is there a smaller seal deeper down that I didn't see or are these the seals? The guy I bought it from said he replace one bank of seals but he mentioned something about 302 seals? I tend to not trust him since he lied about everything else (of course he said it was a 312!) What's the easiest way to replace these seals? Can I remove the entire rocker ***embly in one piece? What's the secret to getting the spring retainers off and back on in one piece? Any specialized tools required? This is my first y-block so I'm learning as I go but it's fun!
Yes the rocker ***embly comes off in one piece. You will need a valve spring compresser to remove the keepers and retainers and get to the seal. it can be done with the heads on, but you may want to get someone with experiance to show you so that you don't end up with a valve dropped into the cylinder.
The seals should be a small umbrella style, just like any other older OHV engine. Don't know if there the same as 302 or not. Richfox is right, the josb is pretty easy, but don't drop a valve...you'll be pullin her apart if you do.
I know some use air. I don't trust it. I like a piece of string in the sparkplug hole with the piston part way down. Then you bring the piston up till you feel resistance. Don't put the whole piece of string in the cylinder. Leave some hanging out so you can remove it when your done. I know one guy who didn't.
A length of cloths line fed down the spark plug hole then moving the piston towards TDC also works well to hold the valves up. Do it on the compression stroke so that both the intake and exhaust valves are held shut at the same time. Its very likely that the rubber umbrella type oil seals used on a 302 Ford may fit the Y-block just fine. The valve stem diameters on both motors are 11/32", if you've got room inside the Y-block valve springs for the 302 seal it should work fine. Do you have a Y-block rebuilding manual or a shop manual? If not grab one. Also check out the numerous Y-block web sites for additional information and magazine articles. Remove the rocker shaft bolts a little at a time moving from one end to the other while turning the bolts 1/4 to 1/2 turn at a time to avoid tweeking the shaft. Now is also a very good time to pull the stands and rockers off the shafts, inspect and expect to have to replace the shafts (if they havn't been already - because there is a very good chance they are shot) and send the rockers out to be bushed (because there is a very good chance they are galled where they ride on the shaft and also usually have excess wear on the tip where they ride the valve tip). Shafts are still available from many sources, including Sealed Power. Rockers are expensive to buy new (19 dollars each for the low ratio ones - new high ratio rockers are N.L.A. but you can have any y-block rocker rebuilt. I've had great luck with Blain at www.rockerarms.com. They've been running about 7-9 dollars a peice depending..... If your motor has one of those cheesy Band-Aids "kits" sending oil up to the rockers from a galley down on the block get it off of there and toss it out. You can get rid of the factory return feed that normally dumps oil to the return tube and down the lifter galley from the end of each rockershaft by modifying the return tube ***embly by pulling the return tube out of its base and tapping the remaining hole in the base and filling it with a small set screw or plug to block the p***age....or pinch the return tube or do what I did and make a block-off plate and put the tube ***emblies in a bag for safe keeping. Once you do that you'll be feeding the rockers pressurized oil. The pressurized oil and bronze bushed rockers keep the valvetrain happy for quite some time once you take care of these small issues. If you have solid pushrods in the motors, throw them away and order the later style tube tubular type. Speaking of oil.....a clean oil pan, pick-up and a fresh oil pump is a great idea if you havn't already done it. These motors can be pretty sludgy. I had good luck using a blueprinted pump from Precision Oil Pumps. Good luck with it. -Bigchief.
If you have removed the rocker shaft, don't worry about being on the compersion stroke. The valves will be closed.
Some good info here guys. The clothes line is clever! I'll try it. Thanks for your detailed post BigChief. I've removed the pan and cleaned it out. I was suprised at how clean it was. Not too sludgy at all. Under the vally pan and the rocker covers was reasonably clean also. It looked as if it had a newer oil pump on it. I'll check the rocker and shafts when I get them off. Will there be noticable slop or will there be visual wear? About the oiling mods - I'll have to take a look at the engine to see what you're talking about. I have an idea but I don't want to block the wrong hole.
Once you have the rockers, stands and shafts dis***embled wear should be obvious. Manytimes the rockers will feel 'OK' when still ***embled on the shaft, you need to pull them off to tell what is going on for sure. Make sure you debur the ends of the shafts a little where the wave washers and cotter pins go and removing all of the varnish from the shaft will allow the stands to come off easier too. The bottom surface of the shaft will be galled/chewed/worn as will the botton interior surface of the rockerarms. Rockers that still have a completely smooth bore and fit on new shafts without too much play are OK to use but if the tips need to be reground then you might as well send them out anyway.
It's been about 10 years since I went through a 292 head, but at the time I bought new, replacement rocker ***emblies. I was very happy to find that thet were readly available
The best place to order Y block parts is from John Mummert, www.Ford-Y-Block.com The modification big Chief talks about is good, but it needs to go one step further for long engine life. Do NOT remove the tubes as he says; cut them shorter with a tube cutter, and tap the inside, ( much easier than it sounds), then put in a plug with about a .060 hole in it. The tube on one side will oil the timming chain, the other side oils the distributor gear. Good Luck fellow Y blocker!
Holding the valves in place with compressed air works just fine. My father and I did the same thing on my 223 six. We made a fitting to go in the spark plug socket.
Okay, I'm back. Since it seems to be Y block night I have a few more questions. I got the rocker ***emblies off - they seem nice and tight so I don't think I'll have to do much more than clean them up. My question - can I use a standard spring compressor to get the retainers off? Do I just thread a bolt in one of the rocker stand holes and use that to anchor the lever type spring compressor? Also, I see a large rubber cup just inside the spring (roughly the same diameter as the inside of the spring) - that's not my valve seal, is it? What is it? Thanks for responding to my questions so far. You've been nothing but helpful. I'll post some pics of my engine when I'm done hopefully this weekend!
The rubber thing is the "umbrella seal" There are different tools to compress your valve spring. First take a socket and place it on the retainer and give it a good wack. That will free up the keepers. Then do what you have to to get them out with the tool you have.
I thought my rockers were good too by 'feel' too. You have to pull them apart for inspection to see the galling. Pull a few rockers and a stand or two off the shaft for a good look and that'll give you a real idea of how they are. There are valvespring compressors out on the market that use the shaft and stands as a fulcrum....you could probably make one up if you had too. -Bigchief.
Sorry to haunt you guys with my questions but I'm having a few problems. Is this a two person job if you're using a lever type spring compressor? I'm compressing the spring with the lever but the retainers just don't want to come loose. I did use a socket and gave them a whack to loosen them up. If it doesn't come apart easily I certainly don't want to force it unnecessarily and bust something. Are the retainers usually this stubborn? Just looking for some tips is all. Would another style of compressor work better for this job?
Does anyone know if Dirtytace ever finished this project on his Y-Block?? Just looking for info on building my 317 Y Block sometime in the future and reading every thing I can find.
nine years? I think it's lost to history, by now. he hasn't posted for a while, but you can look at his profile and see his postings, maybe there's something there?
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