Good info. I doubt I have C1's on the 390. I do have the C6AE-R heads on the 352 though, how do those fair? Only reason I'd do aftermarket is because I needed different heads anyway, and go aluminum with the intake manf.
Your heads would also work well, the C1, C4, and yours will all give you a pretty good facsimile of a LR / CJ head if you add the larger valves and do a little cleanup and good valve job. There are subtle differences in the different castings, but for a cruiser, all will work. As long as you stay within the basic LR type architecture, they aren't particularly expensive to build, if you know what to shop for
For your purposes, a 390 is a 390. Dont go all picky about hard to find parts. Basic engines have lots of torque for a driver, especially in a lighter car.
I don't like 110 lsa cams in 390's, so off the shelf, I would use an Isky or a Howard on 108. Other than that, cant disagree with any of this. The Duraspark is every bit as good as the Pertronix once you shorten up the mechanical advance a bit and its factory ford stuff. Streetmasters work REAL good, but since Jays book came out, they have gotten expensive and hard to find. The Street Dominator works real good too, and they tend to be cheaper. I agree with what Gene said about the later heads too. They all work good with a set of CJ valves and a mild pocket port, they will go around 250-260cfm, that's virtually the same as the ROM heads on an honest bench. Get Jay Browns book, even if you are building a mild motor, its full of really good info. Go to the link. http://fepower.net/GFEIC.html
So there's no real advantage to going aftermarket aluminum heads? Like I said, I can't find anyone I trust to rebuild this engine, let alone take a grinder/dremel to my heads. What do you all think? And how much I dig into this 390 to make sure it's a sound setup? Need some tips and tricks of the trade. Never rebuilt one. Sent from my SM-N930P using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
C6AE-R heads are original to a 1966 352. Chamber size 71.2-74.2cc. 2.02" intake valves, 1.55" exhaust. Same head as many other casting numbers, found on many non-HiPo FE motors. -Bill
I wouldn't quite say that. Lets say with the performance levels you are targeting there's no real advantage other than wieght. If you are aiming for big power, a set of CNC Survivors, BBMs, or Ponds are a HUGE advantage, but I don't think you really need a 360-370cfm intake port for what you are doing
And there was a guy that used to come out to Mission with a very basic 390 in an all steel street driven '69 Mach 1 that ran 11.70s and drove it home. Streetmaster, C1AE's with the mods Gene and I have out-lined, 250ish flat tappet cam and 4.30s. Maybe you just don't know how to make an FE run.
Congratulations and Thanks for contributing such helpful knowledge about FE's. To Gene and George's point about FE's becoming more and more reasonable to rebuild. Last summer I rebuilt the 390 in my '76 F250 after it shit out a headgasket and scored a cylinder. The combination is as follows: '76 390, bored 0.030" Stock stroke, heads, and intake (original 4bbl motor, kind of rare in '76) I did the valve job myself since I have a nice old Sioux valve grinding machine and Bridgeport at home. Stock size valves, new guides, etc. I did not port the heads. Decked the heads and block just enough to clean them up and flatten the mating surfaces. Holley 600 on top. Duraspark II ignition (stock) Hedman long tube headers Howard Hydraulic Cam: 213/223 @ 0.050" Dual Pattern, 112 deg. LSA, 0.525" Lift Survival Motorsports Basic 390 Rebuild kit. Approx. 9.5:1 Compression Dual 2.5" stainless exhaust all the way back. I have under $2,500 into the rebuild, and this thing runs great and will pull anything despite the power robbing C6 behind it. It has no problem walking away with my 10,000 lb '24 enclosed trailer. It does not rev past 4500, and does not need to. It is making all sorts of torque around 2500 (dyno would likely show torque peak being between 2800 and 3200 rpms). In a smaller lighter car, this combination would be a bunch of fun and bullet proof reliable.
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/isk-351264/overview/ or a little bigger, I'd want a 2800 stall converter and a 3.55-3.89ish gear with this one... https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/isk-351271/overview/make/ford
Hey @falcongeorge I was out cruising the countryside near the small town I grew up in and stopped at a garage sale, and the guy had an "Elderbrock" intake for FE's, didn't get a part number or price. Are they still making them.
Yup, they still make several, Performer, Performer RPM, Victor, and a low rise 2x4 that no-one wants because it only takes AFB's. Seriously, what self respecting FE guy is going to run dual AFBS? Is nothing sacred?? They have made some decent ones in the past, like the Streetmaster and the F427. But they have also made some real dogs. And stay FAR away from the Weiand 7282, it is a DOG. EVERYWHERE. The big news, for me at least, is BBM's tunnel wedge is finally ready for market. I should put my name on the waiting list I guess. I was planning ahead and already have the carbs, thanks to Wrayman!
The Edelbrocks are slightly better than a stock CJ head, but not much- but being aluminum, they are easy to improve with some porting. One thing with Ebocks, you want the ones they call 390-428 heads, they have the more modern chamber and all 16 exhaust holes. The ones they call 427s have the old style machined chambers. The other options like Survivals and BBMs are more expensive and not necessary for a cruiser. My CNC Pond heads flow 354 on the intakes, and my Dove / Kuntz High Risers come in around 385- but they may get a jolt soon
Well the CNC ported Ebrocks from Kuntz and others flow some decent numbers, but they are competing for the same market as the CNC BBM's and Ponds and stuff. OOB the BBM's or Survivor felonys look like a better bang for the buck than the Edelbrocks to me. They are a SOLID 25 cfm up, and about $500 more. If I am going to lay out the bucks for an aftermarket head, I expect a meaningful out of box power gain over ported factory iron, the Ebrocks don't do it. I port my own heads and have a flow bench, so for me, the work on the iron heads is "free". If you were paying someone to do it, that might make the Ebrocks more attractive, but I would still go straight to the BBMs or Survivors. For the update on my own motor, I haven't made a final decision between the BBM's, Survivors and Ponds yet, but I will be springing for a 370ish cnc head.
One thing to remember is that later C6s have a sloped case. While earlier C6s have a round bell housing. I put a 390 and C6 in my 53 and it was very easy while my buddy installed a later one in his 53 and the had to modify the floor for the sloped bellhousing .
As I get older, I am more inclined to spend more money on airflow. The thing is, with more intake flow, I can meet a given power target with less intake duration and a wider lsa than a given combination built around a less efficient intake port, and that's something to really think about.
Not to shift fire to much, but what about doing better than a C6? Something with OD? I'd only do the C6 because I have it, but it'd be nice to have OD without spending another $3200 on gear vendors.
Wow this is a great thread. I'm learning so much here, so thank you for all the input thus far. A question for Gene or George regarding the intakes and I don't want to get of track, but the mentioned Edelbrock twin 4 intake only takes AFB's. I found out the hard way that Holleys carbs wont fit. Cheers
You are still going to spend some money to put a automatic o/d trans behind a FE since there is none that will bolt in,just put a 2.75 or 3 .00 gear in it and you will be fine. I had a 65 country squire with a 390 and C-6 that had 3.00 gears and if I kept my foot out of it I would get 16 on the highway.
Edelbrock shot themselves in the foot by tying to force folks into using the Edelbrock carbs on that 2x4, if Holleys fit they could sell a bundle of them. Not many folks are interested in AFB type carbs on an FE. A couple people had made a simple adapter plate to spread the pattern out enough to get the Holleys on there
Way back when I put together a 390 w/427 heads 2/4's & other parts I had laying around in my 63 Galaxie. Guy in tech inspection didn't believe me and made me run it as a 428 in D/HR. Thing ran 13.20's all day. Guys were pissed in that class after I beat all of them. Complained to tech but wouldn't put up the $$ to tear me down. They must have had some lame cars to get beat by that big ol' sled. Highlight of my drag racing career.
The best option for a road car (and slightly cheaper than Gear Vendors) is to get a built AOD, saw the bellhousing off and use the Quicktime replacement bellhousing that bolts to the pump. A stock AOD is a bit weak behind an FE, but will live if your careful and keep it off the track. I run an AOD behind the 352 in my '62 Merc. It was built by Broader Transmissions and adapted to the Cruis-O bellhousing, about $1K cheaper then the GV overdrive and a brand new rebuilt trans with warrenty. The bad part is the Merc's cross member needed to be modified to fit the AOD. Not a huge deal, just not a straight bolt in either. But it is awfully nice to be able to smoke down the interstate at 75 mph with a 3.6 chunk in the 9 in and the engine only turning 2300 rpms. Bendsten's and Wilcap also make the 1.25" thick adaptor plates that will adapt an AOD or 700 R4 to the FE, but sometimes you don't have the room to push the trans back another inch or more. My Broader Built AOD with the Cruis-O bellhousing For manual Over Drives, your best option is buy the QuickTime bellhousing and drop a TKO 5 speed in. Not cheap, but then most things in this hobby aren't. Some guys have used Ford RUG 4spd OD's, and all that is needed is the right bellhousing, but they have a tendency to explode when hammered on hard, especially with a big inch FE. The RUG's also have a terrible gear ratio spread.
I know most HAMBers aren't really interested in building a trans, they just want a bolt-in, but if you are willing, the Ford AOD can be built to withstand just about any power level you want to throw at it.
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