Hey all, On suggestion by another member, I thought I'd start a build thread, share some long winded back story, and ask for tech advice with more traffic here: Recently the proud owner of another 1958 Desoto 4 door. Ya see, as a boy who always was into planes, trains, boats, cars, and all things mechanical, the very first car I ever bought as a 17 year old kid, living all on my own, was a '58 Firedome 4 door hardtop. Very badly rusted. Got her to run, but that's about it. Trundled around my buddy's long driveway with the parking brake. She disappeared while I was in USAF basic. But I never forgot her. Flash forward about 25 years... A few weeks ago, my lady and I bought another 1958 Desoto 4 door, albeit a Fireflite Sedan. But this one is special. She is literally the "Barn Find" I have been looking for all my life. A 47,xxx mile survivor. Had major carb issues, according to PO. Paid the most I have ever thought about paying for a car that didn't run, and had a dead battery. But a 1958 Desoto, with all the original interior, solid body, and the original 361. And 47,xxx miles. And, IMHO the '57- '58 Desotos are the most beautiful car to ever come out of Detroit in the 50's. Anyways, after I removed the AFB that was leaking at top seal, dumping raw fuel into the rear cylinders, and throttle shafts sloppy as heck, I put a brand new Holley 600cfm vac sec with a spacer/adapter(all my fabbing/racing buds have Holly bits for tuning). I charged the batt(which revived @100 CA over advertised rating), and pulling the valve covers to squirt oil on the lifters, rockers, stems, ect. And she fired right up. No coughs, sneezes, or farts. ZERO smoke, zero ticks, knocks, or odd thumps. Checked all fluids, topped off. Runs like a TOP. Haven't even checked timing or adjusted the holley yet. We'll get to that later, after my biggest issue is resolved. My biggest challenge has been the brakes. The car has been "almost" drive-able for almost 2 weeks, and the bad weather is almost here. Problem is, I had a leaky cylinder in the right rear, which hosed BF all over the asbestos shoes, rendering them useless. Absurd. The drum "locks" violently, after rolling a few feet. Another set of shoes on way, and hopefully we can drive her a few times this year. Been as frustrating as it gets trying to service 60 year old brakes and service parts are 80% online order and a WEEK OUT only... A scarebird conversion for the fronts is a must this winter, with a 2 circuit MC(good stock appearing suggestions welcome). I think I am fairly determined to change the rear axle as well. If I have a car, and I want to drive it 75 miles one way, I should be able to. Not be scared that a 60 yr old single circuit drum brake system might get me stuck somewhere, unable to get parts, except off ebay. And then, more asbestos. I want to find brake parts, cheap, sitting on a shelf around ANY corner, for at least another 25 years. I want MUCH more safety, serviceability, and reliability. The original brakes is all on the car I don't trust to drive interstate. Maybe the generator, but I'd like to go 2 miles at least first haha There lies my challenge of the balance: Do I put in an mopar axle only 10-15 years newer, with drums? Will shoes and drums be available for said mopar 8.75(or whatev axle I choose) in another 20 years? Will I still have to move perches( there is some that nearly bolt in leaf spring axles, I think?)? If so, how about a stripped crown vic axle, or maybe a Grand Cherokee axle stripped with spring perches welded on? Ford 9"? Just throwing out crazy off the hip so you get the idea. Not in love with HAS to be Mopar, but would be nice. Common, cheap, fairly strong (3,990lbs car with 300+ HP), and what brake parts will be still be common in 20 years, and the difficulty of swap are what I am trying to sort out. I've read what goes on here. There are some seriously encyclopedic swapping gurus lurking about. Unfortunately, for the most part so far, I get wanna be gods trying to be snooty at the idea of actually DRIVING my car farther than 5 miles, and *gasp* modifying it for reliability and safety over at ForwardLook. They generally don't care too much for modifications or deviations away from factory stock on much of anything, and were pretty insulting and attacked me when I shared I might cut her up in a few years for an all MOPAR exotic custom build. It is what I dreamed of with my first Desoto(and a 4 door is key, even though end result is a 2 dr). As I dug into her, got her started I realized what a rare surviving gem I really had. So preserve restore everything I can, except when safety, reliability, cost, parts found on a shelf around ANY corner, and ease of maintenance can make huge strides forward. Even the guys telling me to get the scarebird kit at FL keep trying to talk me into keeping my rear axle. WHY? That pressed drum, asbestos, and a completely undriveable car if an axle or slave on a 60 year old car starts leaking? And I am guessing the PO got rear ended lightly BECAUSE of a leaky slave that developed while she was driving in a city, and the brakes locked on her. And 2 weeks now of me fiddle fudging with drum brakes? Not this guy ever before on ANYTHING, car, duelly truck, semi-tractor, or aircraft!!! I haven't looked at a manual in 25+ years to service brakes, but I can't seem to keep out of my '58 Desoto service manual!? Not gunna fly on my dream car. That archaic, iffy, temperamental, marginally safe crap gotta GO. This is a Survivor, but a DRIVER. Here's a few pics. The one is the worst rust in the entire floor. She was garaged as far as I can tell, until about 4 years ago, and I guess when most of the rust actually happened, especially on the floors. But EXTREMELY intact and restore-able to as factory, especially for a rustbelt car. The plan as it stands is replace any of the "beige" colored cloth with a grey, matched to dash cover, and rear panel, to factory grey on steering column, to make the metal trim, bits, and grey painted parts "pop". Get rid of the pus infection yellow exterior paint, and paint her black, with a bright red top and spear. Mooneyes "Saturn" disks, and 3 inch whitewalls. Replace any missing, broken, trim, chrome, ect. Some of that will be a challenge to find. like the 3 side spear trim bits we need, turn lever, and left bumper extension outside/under the bumper... Anyways. Any MOPAR guys, custom builders familiar with axle swaps, historical tech, parts and tips on Desoto bits for sale, much respected and appreciated. And if ya were wondering: "DieselJeep" is a 1974 CJ5 'restomod' I built, frame off, complete overhaul and parts mash, and installed an overhauled by me, even the injection pump, isuzu 4fb1. Near bolt in conversion, goes anywhere , even in 2wd High, and I get 40+ mpg. I also own the #1 Google picture result for 4FB1. That is my Jeep motor, the "Caterpillar" tribute color schemed one. I'm not a punk Fast and Furious kid, except for desoto factory drum brakes, it seems. haha Thanks for your time, and any advice. Glad to be here, learn, and help out if I can.
The 65-7 C body axle is a direct bolt in, others like the 71-3 Mustang, 70s Ranchero, Duster, Challenger, fit with a spring perch relocation. I'd say a modern (no nut on the end of the axle) is a good idea. A disc brake conversion or later spindle swap works also. a later in the 60s disc/drum master cyl works fine on my '60 Plym. along with 77 NYer disc spindles.
Lots of options for a rear end swap, just be prepared for driveshaft, u-joint, and spring perch changes to make it work. I always thought the only completely bolt-in swap out there was the E-body 8 3/4, but the spring perches are about 1" further apart so you'll have to push on the leaf springs to get it all lined up. Some B-body and C-body axles would probably also work but measure the width to be certain and be ready to at least move the spring perches. If you don't care about keeping it all-Mopar, the late '60s Mustangs, Cougars, Torinos, Rancheros, etc all have 8" and 9" rear axles that will work. Since the e-brake on your '58 is at the tail shaft of the iron Torqueflite, you don't have to worry about parking brake connections at the rear axle. It's true that a lot of mid-late '70s Chrysler products have front brake systems including spindles that will swap over to your Fireflite. Some quick google searches will turn up years and part numbers. But these cars are getting hard to find too. I have had good luck using AAJ brackets with early '70s Mopar B-body bearings, rotors and brake masters, and GM A-body calipers. You shouldn't come here and badmouth the forwardlook.net site members. Most of them are members here too, and a few of them might have even seen your goofy plans for the Desoto and the rant thread that you deleted over there. Good luck.
cool car....I saved a coral color 57 hardtop when we crushed out our wrecking yard.....traded it in for a 56 Chrysler hardtop to a buddy....
If future parts availability is a concern, then go for a Ford 9". These have become almost a 'standard', with the aftermarket reproducing virtually anything you might need for one. And good used ones are still out there, so spending big bucks for a all-new rear isn't needed yet....
Dont see the point to change the rearaxle just for the brakes. If you fix the brakes they will be good for many years of driving. Just get another set of brakeparts for reserve for the future. If you want to upgrade put in a dual mastercylinder.
I have had wet brake shoes that I have saved by spraying them down with carb cleaner and let them dry good and the rough them up with sand paper and were good to go on my old Chrysler.BE SURE TO WEAR A MASK WHILE SANDING THEM.I hope this helps and COOL car.Bruce.
I don't disagree, but the Mopar tapered axle design makes basic brake maintenance more complicated than it needs to be. There are a few how-tos for replacing the swedged drum with slip-on replacements, but it's not that much harder to swap the entire rear end.
I dont know how often you guys must do your brakes. But after 30 years with a Dodge 53 and about 10 years with a 59 that both get a fair amount of miles every year i never felt the need to replace the stock units with something else.
here's my good reason to get rid of one of those rears and put in a newer one. I had a bad drum on my 61 Dart and could not find a replacement. I parted out a 53 Chevrolet that had a big block Chrysler and an 8 3/4 rear so I had this free rear end with brakes I can replace at the parts store as well as access for an emergency brake.... another worthwhile reason is you lose you parking brake in these cars if you change the transmission.
You shouldn't come here and badmouth the forwardlook.net site members. Most of them are members here too, and a few of them might have even seen your goofy plans for the Desoto and the rant thread that you deleted over there. I heard the 8.75 from a 65-69 C body(not imperial) is a direct fit. I will have my flange to flange measurements, spring center dimensions, and a tape, handy. Of course, almost no consensus. Thanks for the help. Second, I never deleted the thread. Admin must have. NOT my fault if idiots wanna be small, dumb, mean pricks, and get a generous helping of the same in return. But HONESTY from my side. That's the main difference. Did you read the BS welcome those self righteous a holes gave me? The comments about chevrolet v8s, and other drivel like 20 post of it? Did I ask for opinions about MY car? I ask for help, and ppl wanna LIE about intent, and pretend to be all knowing, like some kinda wish I was a god. Idiotic and nauseating pontification and verbal masturbation. ESP from a buncha silver spoon pansies with more money than skill, with a big mouth over the net, that would look at the floor if we were in the same room. Again, master customizers with vision, sailing uncharted waters, never give a crap about what scared small idiots think. MOST of those "discerning" jerk offs are SCARED to drive their cars more than 20 miles a year, because they dump $1,500 into the factory brake system, trying to keep ANTIQUE, UNRELIABLE, GARBAGE "original". If people are nice, helpful, and wise, I shut up and learn. If ya can't take it, don't dish it out, 'cause my honesty MIGHT hurt. Especially when ya don't KNOW me, or what I am capable of. Never posted a concept pic, so dunno what you are talking about, or how you could possibly know what the end result would be, to label it "goofy". So THANKS buddy. And I wouldn't call buying a nice low mileage Viper to cut up for an all MOPAR exotic, classic styled, Forward look car body, that I have been meditating on for over 20+ years, "goofy". Investing in almost 30K in two cars to cut up. Oh I should listen to confused idiots who will NEVER accomplish anything of merit in life with opinionated mouths? And I don't own a #1 Google search result(my jeep motor, 4FB1), from listening to scared, no skill, chicken littles. THANKS.
This being a Hot Rod and Custom site, means modifying anything is ok. Don't let the purists sway your thinking, but also be respectful to others opinions. The long winded post was a little too descriptive, and almost a rant, but I can see you've had a few people pushing their opinions on you. Stick to your ideas, but remember there are guidelines to what's acceptable here, and don't talk about off topic things, such as other vehicles that don't fit this sites criteria. I think basically, you have a great car, modify it to suit this sites ideals, and you'll have a real winner to enjoy. Good luck, I'll be watching your progress.
You have no idea sir. I made a build thread, honestly shared MY ideas about MY car, and about a dozen chicken littles verbally jumped me on my thread all at once. Punk bitches. Thanks for the support, and positive attitude. Owe ya a beer.
The Jalopy Journal
