I'm looking at a substantial rust repair cycle and need some advice as to where to start. 1940 Ford Tudor - rusted floor, rusted rockers and rusted through A and B pillars. So, where to start? My logic says start with rockers and build from there. Question is, how much to remove at a time and which panels to replace in what order without changing the shape/dimensions of the body, and maintain the attachment points in the correct places. Do I need to support/brace the inner space before I start? Should I buy the complete lower cowl part as it includes the lower A pillar attachment point. Same question for the lower rear quarter as it includes a wrap around for the door pillar. Any help or advice is most welcome.
Meh.. I say you start with the rockers cause that will line up your A/B pillars.. Then just repair the pillars and floor.. Get a bead roller then return it to the store when your done and get your money back.. Brace the p***enger side to the driver side, perhaps with turn buckles, so you don't lose your footprint.. I mean hell, I dont like spending money on **** especially when you have to cut everything up from the replacement piece.. just my .02
A beginner would probably be best off buying the repro parts that Carpenter makes, instead of making from scratch. Make sure your ch***is is solid, then get your doors fitted on the rusty carc***, gapped perfectly. Weld some crossbars across the body to keep the width, and across the doorways so the door gaps will remain good when everything is removed below and floppy. If you look at pics on the HAMB you are sure to find examples. Lift the body off. I'd start at the bottom and work on the new rockers and floor, bolting it to the frame. Then hang the body above and work on the door posts. The running boards (bolted to the frame) will help you see if the body is at the right height.
Alchemy got it right. Jack the car or body up to a convenient height and true it up. You will need a lot of scissor jacks. Get it sitting level fore and aft, and right to left. Make sure the doors fit right and the body is not twisted. If you get everything true within 1/8" you are doing as good as the factory or better. You may need to tack weld or bolt in some braces made of angle iron or conduit tubing. Now you can take the doors off and replace the rocker panels and whatever else you need to replace, to have something to weld to. Then the back panel behind the trunk, the floors, trunk floor etc until you have a solid foundation. Keep checking that everything is straight, don't get in a rush. While doing all this only cut out the part you are working on. Leave everything intact to keep what little strength and rigidity it has. Besides you may need to inspect various parts to figure out how they were put together. Taking pictures as you go can be helpful too, and gives you a nice record of your work for later. If you are careful and do it right the body will be straight and true and everything will fit perfect. Take your time, you don't want to find out the doors or the trunk don't fit after you have everything welded together. I actually saw a guy make this mistake on a Rolls Royce, after welding up the rockers and floors the doors wouldn't fit, they wouldn't come close to closing. The owner fired the guy who messed up and tried to get me to fix it. I offered to fix it for $5000 and he thought that was robbery, the owner didn't realize I would have had to cut out all the work that was just done before I could true up the body, then do it all over again. A friend who works on a lot of Porsches made an interesting gadget. It has a flat plate drilled to bolt on in place of the door latch, another that bolts onto the lower hinge mount and they are connected by a long rod with a turnbuckle. He can tighten the turnbuckle and pull the door opening true then weld in a new sill. It has saved him a lot of time over the years.
Decent cross bracing and ensure doors fit with even gaps. Measure twice, cut once! A bit over the top however it wasn't going anywhere. Time spent here is definitely worthwhile in the long term. I've seen lots of stuff ups because corners were cut to save time and then nothing fitted or was not able to be adjusted later.
Can't advise to order but I brace things. I also take some measurements from critical points and write them on the body, 6mos from now you'll be able to remeasure to see if the distance has changed. On critical braces I'll use a turnbuckle so I can add tension or compression. One problem with rigid bracing is that it ***umes you have a perfectly true body to begin with, when you replace floorpans etc you don't want to weld them into a body that is wracked. I used heim joints, left & right hand threaded and 1" tube to make the turnbuckles, heres one I am doing now. btw, the stuff in white is what I'm fixing, it had just come back from media blasting, that is not my workmanship. Just to be clear.
Thanks for the tips. Let me be sure I understand the process. Since I am working with a replacement frame (already blasted, repaired and primed), I should true it up first, then lay the new rockers and floor in place on the new frame, (does the floor slide under the rockers at the frame rails?). Bolt the rockers in place, tack weld the floor to the rockers. Next lift the body off the old frame and place it on the new rockers and floor (how do you protect the rusty body from from warping?) Should I true up the body with doors on, brace the inner structure while on the original frame? Or move it over as is? Cut out one panel at a time, starting with lower cowl, moving to B pillar. How do you support the body over the frame as you are working on it? Or do let it rest on the rails. This will be my first attempt at this kind of repair and I want to take my time and get it right. Any further ideas and suggestions?
You can leave the frame out entirely. Jack the body up to a convenient height to work on. Level it. If the body is sagged or twisted you will have to pull it back square. This may take a lot of scissor jack adjusting, I have used as many as 8 or 10 jacks under a real bad body. You may need to pull it with comealongs or Porta Power. Once you get it trued up, brace it with angle iron or conduit tubing braces, bolted or tack welded in. Make sure the doors fit perfectly, also the trunk lid. This step is crucial. If the body is wonky and you weld it together wonky nothing will fit. OK now with the body trued up you can start by welding in the rocker panels or sills. This is your foundation. With the sills in place you now have something to weld the floor to. With the floors in you should start getting happy because the body should be strong enough to hold its shape on its own. Every time you weld in a piece it gets stronger and more rigid. Keep checking as you go along that everything is square and true and the doors and trunk lid fit. You can put things together with long tack welds then finish weld after you double check. Before you know it the body is solid as a rock and all you have to do is patch a few rust holes. I don't know how to explain it any clearer than that. If you never did bodywork before this is no way to learn. Don't overmatch yourself. Start with some smaller jobs and work your way up to the big jobs. When the body is done and painted and you want to fit it to the frame you will have to set it on the body mount rubbers and put shims in until they are all resting on the frame with the same weight. Then bolt it down, not too tight, just a snug fit. You do not want to distort the body or the frame but match them together.
On re reading your question, it seems the body is still on the original frame. Suggest you remove the body mount bolts but leave the body sitting on the frame. True up the body, still on the frame. Weld or bolt in braces. Then transfer the body to jack stands and start welding it up. Do all welding, seam sealing, and paint at least the bottom of the body before you mount it on the new frame.
I am flying blind here with almost no information. It could be the body is not that bad. If the doors and trunk fit well with even gaps and open and close properly it could be the body is not sagged or distorted and the sills etc are still intact with just a few holes in the floors. Who knows? You are the only one who knows, the rest of us are guessing. Earlier I was talking worst case of a badly rotted body. Of course if it still has most of its strength left the job is much easier.
I was saying first you have to true up the body then you have to replace one piece at a time, putting back the strength until you have a complete rigid body again. It is critical to have it straight to begin with, if it is wonky to start with and you weld it up and make it rigid it will be wonky forever.
You protect the body from warping by bracing it before you do anything else. Except you have to be sure it is straight before you brace it.
Check my 40 coupe build thread out. I am not saying my methods are the best but we got good results doing it the way we did. The thread has a lot of pictures which may help you see ways to get your various projects done. Good luck and have fun.
As many questions as you are asking ,you may want to find a better body to start with . This is many man hours and many dollars to do it wrong. I am not trying to discourage you before you begin, but I have seen too many unfinished projects shoved behind a garage because they watched too many TV hot rod shows. Just saying after 40 plus years of doing this. Look in the mirror and ask yourself are you ready for this? Good luck.
I repaired a 1940 Ford Coupe using a floor from a 4 door sedan. I cut the posts off 12" high and welded the top of the coupe to the sedan floor. The B pillar was in the same spot as a coupe which made this a bit easier. Joe
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