Art & Inspiration Traditional Construction Techniques?

It seems more and more that you hear about the "proper" ways to build something. Everything must be TIG welded, you cant build a frame without a frame table, or even if you do not have the skills or knowledge to do something yourself you better go find a professional that does. Do not get me wrong, I love looking over the high levels of craftsmanship that are all around us today, beautiful welds and metal finished sheet metal, but this has also got me thinking alot about how it used to be done? When a guy in the 40's needed to add an A cross member to his 32' frame to make room for that new quick change would he have called around town looking for who had a frame table or would he just get to work in the driveway or the dirt floor in the garage? My intention here is not to start a debate over what is the "right" or "wrong" way build something or if it will be safe blah blah, but to see any images anyone has of some good old hot rodder ingenuity. Images or stories that might explain or show how some of the cars we drool over in old pictures actually got built and the tools used to do so.

 

For a reality check go read about guys like Doane Spencer or Doug Rice.

 

Most pretend "traditional" hot rods are way overbuilt these days using methods and components not found in the time period they were meant to replicate.

 

I am very aware of guys like Doane and Doug, and the level of craftsman ship on both the cars they are known for building, but I think you are missing my point. It was not my intention to say that there were not cars built back in the day that were not high quality. All I was looking for where images of, lets say for example, Doug Rice working on the channel on his 39' and showing how he tackled it. Doane, Doug and countless others had a different set of challenges when building a rod of custom than we do today and I am looking for images that represent the creativity and ingenuity to build a car.

 

Hi. As a teen ager back in the 50's I was a bit of a hot rodder but more into customizing. I did learn to do most of my mechanics though We did not use gallons of Bondo & glass nor pop rivet in panel patches. Gas welded with clothes hanger wire & what we could not beat out with hammers & dollies we finished off with lead & a wood paddle & then filed down. Body men were Craftsmen back then. On the mechanics of the cars we were NOT Technicians who could only diagnose with a computer, we actually learned how things worked & how to think & troubleshoot problems.
In reality there is practically NO traditional work being done these days from what I can see around here. Most likely only the very high end restoration shops know how to fix without tons of bondo & pop rivets & that is way beyond my budget at todays prices for that kind of work..
At my age my old body will not let me do much car repair anymore and the only local shop that will work on the mechanics on my old Chevy requires I stay and guide them thru it & tell them how to do it. But at least I get a good discount for that.
Jimmie

 

This isn't quite what you want but it is from 1950-51 and you can see the extroardnary craftsmanship these guys had. I'll wager most of them, these guys, Rice, Spenser etc all learned their skills from working on air planes.

 

Here are some images of the insides of some customs built back in the day that show that sometimes it was more about getting it done than making it pretty.
Snooky Janich Ford


Trunk of the Janich Ford. Not exactly an elegant solution to making room for the differential after lowering.

 

^^Funny if you posted pic's like that today you'd be flamed for being a hack.....I love this forum.

 

Holy jumping. look at all those english wheels!

 

I get what you mean. I was there. Evolution is a grate thing but I got a lot more done way back then. I was lucky enough that my Dad was a fix anything kind of Guy. We had a stick welder and torches in the garage. 6011, 7014 and a fist full of coat hangers and I was a fab shop, or so I thought. Myself and my 3 brothers never could afford a car we could drive home but we built a lot of Hot Rods and never walked after we got our driver license. Today with a Tig welder and wire feed and Tons of other equipment I often find myself dissapointed with the lack of progress due to my current level of work I call finished. Good Lord how I miss the Fun factor of building I used to get out of it. Of course back then we didn't have to start with rendering of cars like most do today.
The Wizzard

 

I need to get a stick welder so I can do it right...and use my torch more....but I do some stuff the old way. I don't have a plasma or a tig. I'm content to use old materials as much as I can, such as lacquer primer, acrylic enamel paint, older non-urethane type sealers, etc. It's fun finding flat head screws these days, but you can do it if you want.

I just bought a 70s luxury car, it is pretty nice, but I noticed a little bondo cracking on the quarter panel. Open the trunk, look at the underside of the seams, it looks like it was brazed on (wide heat mark) after the old one was torched off. Probably done 30-40 years ago, and that was just a normal body shop repair.

I haven't got to work on any old customs...but I'm not at all surprised by the pics posted above.

 

Not all hot rodders were hacks, but there was a lot of "get it done" engineering done. My favorite old 50s magazine cover has a full fendered Model A with a swapped in small block Chevy spray bombed gold and the only frame boxing was where the motor mounts were.

We're not talking about a famous builder, these were some random joes who built a car and the photographer happened to be driving through the area and caught them with the garage door open.

Real guys built real cars with whatever means they had possible.

One of the tech articles in another magazine showed how to torch away parts of the frame to fit dual exhaust.

I'd go looking for them but right now I'm enjoying some rye whiskey and a cigar, it's my birthday!


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COOL! VERY COOL! And totally worthwhile!
"Traditional" hot rods are morphing into pro built street rods, just in a different style.
Just be safe, don't cut corners or get hasty and sloppy! I mean everyone, not the OP!
I think this is a VERY VALID POINT!!!!

 

this '55 chevy 3 speed transmission was converted to a top shifter by my father and uncle. they took turns cutting the shift tower off of a '37 chevy truck tranny with a hack saw. then welded the two back together with a torch.

 

We built the on the floor (when we had one) or on blocks of wood, shimmed until the level said it was good. A hacksaw, hammers, chisels, stick welder, a grinder, had to plan head and get everything ready, then borrow a torch to do cutting. Cut and spliced tie rods, drag links,... used what ever we could find in the junk yards that we thought we could in some way make it work. We cut up old exhaust systems and welded them up to make them work.
Most of the parts we used came from the junk yards because it was affordable and if you dug long and hard enough, you could drag home a trunk load to build from.
We used "stock" pulled engines, transmissions, rear ends and we never even opened them up. Just gave them a degreasing and wash, then a fresh coat of your favorite color and set it in.
Some guys that wanted the 'chop top' look just used a hack saw or grinder, I even saw it done with a torch.

It was all about the 'fun factor', a pair of loud pipes, and burning those junk yard tires off. We drove our cars all over the state, rain-snow... didn't stop us. The best part was lining up against a 50's and 60's hot machines with cammed up big engines, fancy wheels, some with slicks and slick paint jobs .... and give them a good house cleaning with a fenderless Model A Coupe with a stock 327 4-barrel and 3 on the floor.

This picture is very near what I'm describing, pure homebuilt Hot Rod.

 

good thread - there are those here that condemn the use of any modern parts, including, tires, etc. but, most of them use today's hi-tech welders, etc that the guys from way back never could even have dreamed of. the average guy did not even have a stick welder. lots of stuff was brazed, riveted and bolted together. yes, they would be considered hacks & butchers by today's standards. but, the innocence and dreaming and excitement of building/creating something to the best of your own ability was what brought us to today. scrounging parts from wrecking yards, scrap yards, etc was comprised of thrilling detective work to see what could be used to make something work for you. most working with a very low budget, and stretching it as far as it would go. maybe lucking out and knowing some guys that had stick welders, etc that you could get a little help from. or, just getting some of the hand me down parts that they did not need was way out there. yes, many had Dad's, Uncle's, older brothers etc that could guide them through the rough stuff. but, most did not have this option. what an exciting time, that in part, we are trying to recreate today. just do the best that you can , the way you want - and enjoy the thrill of just driving your ride for the thrill of just driving. go without a predetermined destination and have fun..... AHOTROD knows

 

Great stuff so far
Here's a shot of my Dad (on the hood) and my Uncle (under the dash) working on a 36 Ford

 

Thanks everyone for the responses, pictures and stories. This is the kind of stuff I wanted to see and hear about. Here's some stuff I remembered I had from the March 55' Car Craft that I think is pretty neat. View attachment 3407565 View attachment 3407566

 

I don't know when it was done, but here's an example of old school work. Whoever owned my Lincoln wanted some tube shocks on it. They probably couldn't afford or didn't know where to get brackets to mount them with, so they made their own from a couple of pieces of flat steel welded together and welded them to the frame. I'm leaving them in tribute to the original builder, they are rough and crude, but they work.

 

People talk about welding with coat hangers, keep in mind that old coat hangers were quite different from the coat hangers of today. The old black hangers were made of much better steel than they soft yellowish gold hangers of today, they actually worked well for gas welding. I made many repairs out in the field when I operated a service truck working on heavy equipment using coat hangers. I carried welding rod, and brazing rod, on my truck, but there were times when I ran out or forgot to load up when I was at the shop, but I always had fresh coverall's hanging in the welding tank cabinet I could steal the hanger from. And that was not unusual for the other guys out there too. I wouldn't do it today with those cheap ass hangers, but those old black ones, hell yes I would and I did.

 

There are some extremely talented members here on the Hamb that do some amazing work, a lot of the guys are pros and have access to every state of the art piece of equipment imaginable which didn't exist back in the day.

The majority of the members here are building hot rods as a hobby much like the iconic builders of the past that we have try to emulate and they built hot rods & customs without the luxury of programmable plasma cutters,tig welders and exotic frame tables.

Some of the holy grail cars were built with nothing more than a dream and chalk marks on the floor,a oxygen/acetylene outfit,a grinder and a arc welder and a inexpensive set of hand tools.

My last ground-up build was the deuce pickup totally constructed in my home shop, I added a Model A front cross-member,a X member and modified the rear cross-member and boxed the frame...all without the aid of a frame table and not a piece on the frame was tig welded,everything was mig welded.

I used a tape measure,string and a plumb bob and to be perfectly honest it was 1/16 out of square.

IMHO,the majority of the hambers are building some nice cars and are not mechanics,they just have a dream and don't adhere to the ideas of owning every tool in the catalog. HRP

 

A skilled craftsman with a few hydraulic jacks, stick welder, gas torch and hand tools can do a better job than an asshole with a $400,000 frame straightening rig. I have seen it done. I have literally seen a crash job pulled by the best equipped most sophisticated shop in the county, done by the asshole, that was not right. And seen it made perfect by an old guy in a tin shed heated with a barrel stove, working with 50 year old tools.

The moral of the story is, fancy tools don't make you an expert any more than the most expensive golf clubs make you the next Tiger Woods.

 

It's also true that the craftsmanship on some of the old customs was pretty crude when you looked underneath especially in the early years when they were learning what to do. I think Coachcraft and Valley Customs may have been the only shops manned by trained panel beaters.

 

IMO the cars being built today are so much better than what I remember from the 60's, when I saw old time hot rods back then, very crude, stick welded, torch cut pieces, etc.(was some nice ones) About 8/10 years ago, a friend searched out his 27 roadster w/ olds, cad laselle trans that he built late 50's, found it, bought it and invited me over to see it, WOW ! How KOOL is that, after looking at it, he commented "You know, I remember it being KOOL, forgot what a POS it is". Most of us kids back then(60's), we were building, fixing, modifing, on a low budget, making something out of nothing and we were proud of them cars, mostly pretty much junk, by today's standards, different times.

 

The entire back wall of my modified was beat out of a piece of metal, pie cut to curve it and then brazed back together. If you look close you can see each segment where it was brazed back together. I'm leaving it out of respect for the guy that made it.

 

Interesting thread. Looking back at the hot rods and custom my buddies and I built back when I started (early 70's) I can't help but remember how crude they were compared to what we build today. Funny thing is if you showed up now with one of those early cars everyone would say "what a POS". Back then it was just a normal way and in many aspects of it I really miss those days. I think the work involved to build something to today's standard has taken a lot of the fun out of it. Back then I'd never dream of putting the body on a rotisserie and finishing the bottom as nice as the top. Heck, back then I didn't even paint out the speed limit sign on the piece of aluminum I "acquired" to pop rivet in to make a floor!

 

That got me to laughing! I put an aluminum floor in a crappy cheap Vega drag car back in the 80's that I made out of a old Dr Pepper sign [the floor, not the car]. Turned the painted side down, shiny side up, looked like all the rest of the drag cars inside, that is unless you looked under the car, the Dr Pepper lettering was clearly visible!

 

I love reading all the threads on this forum and in some ways I regret in advance saying this for fear I'll be banned lol. But here it goes.. I bought my Model A in 2004 and it took me 10 years to build between raising two daughters and everything else life throws at you. When I started building my car I had never been to many car shows but I knew I really wanted one and didn't have the money to build one with store bought stuff. Instead I went to local junk yards and walked around looking at various parts that I thought I could use or modify to use on my "project". This resulted in the following which is not very traditional by the standards here but maybe 50 years from now someone will think it was lol. I used 1980's-ish Toyota Supra front upper control arms, spindles, brakes and upper and lower ball joints. Made my own cross member and used a ford rack and pinion. Found a power sun roof from a Isuzu trooper with the surrounding metal. Ford Explorer rear axle full length with disc brakes. Of coarse this resulted in having to have custom wheels made so the offset looked good. Honda mini van 3rd row seat modified to fit. Rear trunk hinges from a Lincoln. Tail lights from the trunk of a Lexus. Peterbuilt head lights with a home made headlight bar. And lots of other odd stuff that I'm sure I'll never see any where else. It was a inexpensive way for me to have a fun car that I've always wanted and I'm not afraid to drive [emoji41]


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That's a very good post 208custom and it's developing into great thread.

People are weird and they will tell you all sorts of shit for a variety of reasons and you can't control that. The best you can do is not listen or limit your exposure. So when you're getting exposed to these opinions remember to take it with a grain of salt. Sort of complicated thing that humans are really prone to is not realizing that other folks actually do think different they themselves do. Then they project their realm onto other people. If a particular "opinion generator" doesn't have the experience or knowledge then ,,,no one else does either.

As far as I've been able to tell, craftsman aren't born with knowledge or experience, perhaps talent they are born with but that to along with knowledge and experience needing to be learned and earned can be talent. There is only 1 way to get experience, it's earned slowly.

Another thing I've realized is that today most folks want too much. They want instant gratification, they want quality, they want longevity and they want value. So the shops must get better at delivering those, BECAUSE the guy alone in his garage can not even come close to satisfying all of those, something has to give. Here's how to tell what they gave up. You see a guy build himself a knock out ride that's lacking nothing, well he gave up instant gratification mostly. You see a guy who's ride is rough around the edges, well he gave up quality. You see a guys stellar ride quickly deteriorated, he gave up longevity. You see a guy driving a complete shit pile with enough scary stuff to make Freddy run, he gave up. Now remember each one or type of those guys are going to spew an opinion that defends their choice. You need salt!!! I believe its today's wants that have produced the car building environment and conditions we see today vs yesterday.

If you do things to the best of your ability then that's the best you can do. You know when your cutting corners and cheating yourself, so don't do it. A shop full of tools won't turn anyone into a craftsman.

 

I used engineered floor joists to build an altered chassis jig . added steel padds for leveling and tru-ness... in the old days it was common to to just tack the thing together on a garage floor.
The epoxy resin is climate resistant and as long as it gets tacked without moving ...you re good