I'm trying to get some viewpoints on the effectiveness of early style independent rear ends fabricated from torque tubes. Perhaps the most well known is the one recently seen in the posts on the Kenz Leslie "Odd Rod." I seem to recallI seeing a similar set up in an early Little pages hotrod handbook. I'm building a 23 T for running on the sand, hill climbs and at the drags. I know I'm asking it to perform in different scenarios and there will be many other considerations but the suspension is proving to be something which I can't figure. Over here in the UK we had the Ballamy split beam front end derived from the small Ford popular front axle. I had one some years ago in a deal with some other parts. It was interesting but I couldn't help but think the crazy camber resulting from the axle pivoting up and down would result in reduced tire contact and ultimately poorer handling....Am I missing something? I don't want to venture into a big engineering project if Ol' Henry got it right first time. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I remember seeing Allards with the split beam suspension and could not believe that was used on any performance application. On the other hand that Kenz Leslie rear axle might have some merit in hill climbs and sand racing with the uneven and varied surfaces. To me the key to the K/L rear axle was the torsion bar suspension, it could be much more easily tuned for conditions. At the drags I see no advantage but if the torsion bars could be set stiff enough I guess it would work there too. For sure it would be a conversation starter
Somewhere along the line, I posted a thread with scans of the original how-to that was in Hot Rod in the early fifties. You could try to find that.
It was the Allard rear end that originally got me to thinking about it. There are some well documented race cars that held there own against some far more race proven machinery, so the principle must've worked to some extent. If I'm right I think the Allard rear ends were also fitted to Some HWM race cars... Those similar to the "Stove Bolt" special. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
That looks great! Exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for sharing that photo. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
This thread caught my eye.This is my quickie rear end, I have no idea what it came out of, but someone did say it may be Allard. Anyone know how I can tell?
The Allard quick changes are featured in another thread on the Hamb. That's a very pretty axle but not one of Allards. They were different around the housing for the gears. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Yeh, since finding this post i've been 'digging', Allards a very different. I wonder what its off? Interesting article DDDenny, thanks for sharing
Helped a friend in Cornwall sell this earlier this year. It was bought brand new many years ago and is believed to be Halibrand. It has been adapted to work with an open drive and separate open driveshafts and inboard drum brakes. It has specially machine bells to replace the usual Ford banjo items. It was as part of a project to recreate a Lotus 8 by one of the original Lotus engineers.
Believe what you looking for is "de Dion" suspension - search the net. That is what on eight all--'s picture of Allard shown above. Many early sports cars used.
Yep, lots of modern cars used them, too. Gary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Dion_tube The Alfa version with transaxle is particularly tidy.
Most of the US deals were swing axle and as such end up with lots of negative camber if there is any appreciable wheel travel--think of a VW with a couple of elephants in the back seat. The deDion adds some unsprung weight but does keep the wheels square with the road surface. Roo
Yes the VW bug had the "swing axle" independent transaxle. These were especially good in the dirt, sand, off road, i.e. Dune buggies! Of course the heavier and higher HP Corvair also had this same swing axle set up which lead to the Ralph Nadir book "Unsafe at Any Speed" and killed that design! However in vintage racing today, with simple designs that eliminate the tire from ever going to negative camber, this nasty issue has been eliminated and make very secure and fast cars that originally came with this durable low cost swing axle design. However the later De Dion with the outer axle bearing allows the tire to keep it's tire contact patch through out 100% of it's travel up and down and is found in every high performance car built today with independent suspension.
Not a lot of cars out there with deDion. Lots with articulation at both ends of the axle/half shaft but most rely on control arm geometry to keep the tires close to upright. And as for Ralphie and his crusade, that was a typical witch hunt ( just like the "unintended acceleration Audis and exploding Chevy pick ups) as the Corvair was no more unstable than the swing axle VW's. Do you know that Mercedes Benz used swing axle rear suspension for years including in the legendary Gull Wing 300 SL. It was a low pivot deal but still swing axle. Roo
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