As I've mentioned in another thread, I'm having some growling from my transmission ('51 Ford Deluxe sedan with original flat head inline 6 and 3 speed manual transmission) and over the last couple of days it has started vibrating under light load and acceleration . Today I got a chance to jack it up and get under it to see what I could see. I found a lot of fresh oil coming out of the tail shaft of the trans. and the tail-shaft (and yoke) has almost 1/8'' play in it.The front u-joint has a lot of play in it also- to the point that I'm not willing to drive it anymore until I get it fixed. I have a few options. I can: A) rebuild the transmission, install new u-joints and leave it as is otherwise, B) Look into other, maybe later model, manual transmissions that will still work with my column shift and mate up to my flat head 6, (or maybe the 2 speed auto that they used then?) or C) go whole hog and replace the flat head with a 302/C4 set-up I have laying around. This was my original plan but the old flatty is just plain fun to drive so I've been putting it off. So, anybody got any guidance/info on compatible ******s for the 6 cylinder? Will any of the later 3 speed manuals work with that motor (I'm thinking 3-on-the-tree truck transmissions might?)? Or just any thoughts on which option sounds best?
I can't give an exact answer, but since you want same bolt pattern at the bell, and you want 3 speed column linkage...all I know is the 4 bolt pattern at the bell is 49-64. I don't know if spline lengths, and spline count would be the same in those years for 3 speeds Monday crowd would know .
From your description, it seems you need a new u-joint or two and a tail housing bushing and seal. Simple and inexpensive. You CAN do more, but may not need to. I agree with F&J, ;49 thru '64 Ford and '51 thru '64 Merc trans share the same bolt pattern should you decide to find a later box. But what ***urance do you have that a 50 year old box is any better than what you have? Ray
Hopefully that is all I need, I'm just looking at options. This is a rolling project car, something to drive and fix up as the ideas strike. Like I said, the original plan was a 302/C4 conversion but I'm liking this little flat 6. And I would go through any trans I decide to swap to, never been a fan of spending all the time and work into putting unknown used components into my cars- been there, done that too many times as a youngster.
So am I getting this right? the 49-64 Ford and Merc. bell housings are the same between 6 and v-8? So any Ford trans. (auto or manual) in those years will bolt up to my motor? that sounds too good to be true, lol. And, showing my Ford ignorance again here, whats a T-5 and will it bolt in as well?
No, That is not a correct ***umption. First of all, the manual trans bell housings themselves differ over the years and with engine type. What is common to them is the bolt pattern ON the bell housing where the transmission bolts on. As for a later transmission (pre-'65), most of the stuff through at least '56 is essentially the same gearbox you have now. The exception being the heavy duty BW T-85, but that was not common in everyday Fords/Mercs of the period. It IS desirable, should you stumble across one. As for automatics, there is nothing I know of, that directly bolts on, that is very desirable. There were Fordomatic equipped flathead 6's in 1951 and that would work with your engine but would likely require floor mods and is anything but a performance item. Ray
Late 1980's S10 trans. The truck trans has the shifter closer to the front than the Camaro and Mustang units, this positions the shifter in the proper location in shoebox fords. This will require an adapter plate, trans mount alteration and driveshaft work. Definitely not a bolt in, but in my opinion, well worth the effort
right on the t-85. that's a good trans and expensive. i think the t-86 is more common but apparently not much good. that year ford came with an automatic and the transmission hump is roomier for that reason. that was an air cooled automatic. i would say a t-5 is a better bet. you can google "the ultimate t-5 swap article" to get you going in that direction.
One alternative I haven't seen is a stock overdrive setup. I had one (albeit behind a V8), and it was great. I think you could order it behind a "6" back in the day. We had a discussion on "The Ford Barn" about Fordamatic and 6 cylinder cars, and the general consensus was that Ford never offered that combination. 1951 was the last year for the flathead 6, and the first year for Fordamatic. It wouldn't have made sense for them to tool up for that combination. Ford has done odder thing, though.
I had a clients stock 50 here a few years ago, and it was 6 OD, so it was available in 50 at least, don't know about 51s back to the issue, I look at things differently now, at my age. I'd fix the old trans because it sounds a lot easier and less bull work that retrofitting, if I was happy with the ratio is has. If I wished it was geared more, then I would go further than just fixing the old transmission. .
I can't help with a '51, but a couple comments. The T-86's went millions of miles behind many engines, including 292 Y blocks. If you can find one that will bolt up to your bell, it will be fine. Even the earlier transmissions with o/d will be fine unless you abuse them. Might need to watch the rear gear if you live in a bunch of hills, but I'd bet the o/d would be fine on the flats.
I spent some time on the phone today with Mac at Van Pelt (a fellow HAMBer) and he got me straightened out on the bell housing/****** stuff as well as the parts to fix my transmission. Our conversation plus a search thru the archives here got me all the info on the how-to of the repair. This board, and the folks here, well, I can't tell you how much I appreciate all the help and advice! For the present time, a bushing, seal, and some u-joints are the answer but eventually I see the 302/C4 going in this car. But hopefully that is a ways down the road. (pun intended, lol)
The 51 and 52 FOM's require no floor or tunnel modifications to install. The 51 and 52 FOM's have a short tail shaft,and a dip stick towards the middle/rear of the trans that has to be accessed through an inspection plate on the trans tunnel. To check or add ATF,you have to pull up the floor mats and remove the inspection plate. AFAIK,the 53 transmission will also bolt in,but you would have to swap tailshafts or shorten your driveshaft to make it work. The good news would be you can check or add oil from under the hood with a 53 FOM.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The 51 and 52 FOM's require no floor or tunnel modifications to install. The 51 and 52 FOM's have a short tail shaft,and a dip stick towards the middle/rear of the trans that has to be accessed through an inspection plate on the trans tunnel. To check or add ATF,you have to pull up the floor mats and remove the inspection plate. AFAIK,the 53 transmission will also bolt in,but you would have to swap tailshafts or shorten your driveshaft to make it work. The good news would be you can check or add oil from under the hood with a 53 FOM. The bad news is the 53 Ford 6 cylinder engine was a OHV 216 6,and I have been told that bellhousing won't bolt to the flat 6 engine. Can't tell you anything about the right bellhousing because I can't find anybody that can tell me anything about it,other than "I don't know for sure." Right now it LOOKS LIKE the FOM will bolt to either a flat 6 or a flat V-8 bellhousing,but the V-8 bellhousing won't bolt to the flat 6. Also,the starter plates are different from a flat 6 to a flat 8,and I THINK you will have to use a flat 8 starter or starter gear to mesh with the starter ring on the torque converter unless you are lucky enough to find a NOS torque converter for the flat 6. You ain't going to be that lucky,but you MIGHT be able to change the ring gear for a flat 6 ring gear. It never occured to me to count the teeth on any of the early FOM torque converters that I have. Not sure and nobody seems to be able to say yes or no. Also,if you want to stay original,the FOM uses a 3:31 rear gear ratio,and you most likely have a 4:10 in your car now unless you don't have overdrive. If you don't have overdrive,you most likely have a 3.70 something rear gear. Which means you would also have to change the speedo drive gear. I doubt you will ever be able to find an original single barrel Ford carb with the dashpot,but see no reason why one from a 52-55 with a OHV 6 in it wouldn't work. BTW,don't hesitate to check on Studebaker auto parts up to around 56. Studebaker was using this transmission before Ford. I THINK they started using it in 49,and switched to the more modern water cooled FOM in 56,just like Ford did. Since you already have a good C-4,probably the simplest and cheapest option would be to contact the people who sell C-4 to shoebox swap kits,and ask them if they make one for a flat 6 engine. If they do,buy whatever you need to bolt your C-4 up from them. T-5's and other transmission swaps,as well as your C-4,are going to require shortening your driveshaft and getting it balanced. I am sure I am forgetting something,so don't hesitate to PM me if you have any questions. I have a flat 6 51 business coupe that is my daily driver when it's not raining,and I am determined to convert it over to an original FOM setup. It drives fine now,but my left leg keeps getting infected and swelling,and the VA keeps wanting to amputate it. One day they are bound to win that argument,and I want to have ALL the stuff I need to convert my car to an original flat 6 FOM car sitting in my shop floor before that happens. Right now I have it all except for an original flat 6 FOM bellhousing. I even have a rebuilt 51 short shaft 51 and a NOS torque converter and flex plate.,NOS brake pedal,FOM driveshaft,FOM 3:31 rear,dash pot,and probably other stuff I am forgetting. What I really need the most is the flat 6 FOM bellhousing. The bad news is that they are hard to find. The good news is you and I are probably the only ones on the planet looking for one,so the price should be reasonable. I suspect what I am going to have to do is either make an adapter,or weld the front half of a flat 6 bellhousing to the rear half of a V-8 FOM bellhousing. I am thinking now that my best bet if I have to do that is use the pressed steel bellhousing from a 226 flat 6 pickup truck,and then weld a flat plate to the rear half of a V-8 pressed steel FOM bellhousing and drill bolt holes in it so it will bolt to the pu truck flat 6 bellhousing. One thing I am positive I am not going to do,and that is get rid of my flat 6 engine. I have a 2x1 Edmunds intake for it,and split exhaust manifolds,and am looking for a finned aluminum head. I love driving this car. I plan on getting started laying all the stuff out some time this spring. I now have a 50 parts car with a flat 6,and I'm going to pull that and sit it in my shop floor so I can try to figure all this **** out and take measurements while standing or kneeling,and have plenty of room to work and plenty of light to see. I think I now have at least one version of every 49-53 Ford bellhousing ever made EXCEPT for the one I need. If I haven't found the right one by then,I will figure out what I have to do with what I have to make what I need. If any of you know where I can buy a flat 6 FOM bellhousing,trans hump inspection plate,or the trim plate that goes above the steering column on the dash,please PM me where they are and how much you want for them.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Ford did indeed offer the OD trans as an option with the flat 6 engine. My all-original 51 Ford has one in it that came from the factory. I also have at least 3 or 4 of them laying around. Ford DID offer the FOM as an option with the flat 6. I have a factory sales brochure where they brag about how "Our new FOM transmission is so efficient that unlike other manufacturers,you don't have to order an extra cost optional engine to get it because you can get it with our 6 cylinder engine at additional cost!" Ford offered it as an option until around mid-year. After that they quit offering it and quit advertising it for the flat 6. MY guess is they quit offering it because the typical base car buyer so cheap he or she bought a flat 6 they weren't about to spend extra money to buy a automatic transmission. On the other hand,I have a really hard time imaging Ford advertising it as "available now!" if they didn't have at least a thousand of them sitting outside distribution points ready to ship to buyers. Nobody I have found yet remembers ever seeing one or knowing anybody that had one,but we know they had to exist. I don't have a clue what happened to them,and I strongly suspect the few they did sell ended up with Econoline front ends and FE's in them in by the mid--60's,or were just junked and crushed because nobody wanted to buy one. Everybody that had money to spend wanted to buy a V-8.
A nice bolt in option is the 1984-87 F150 3 speed with overdrive. The front bearing retainer is about .060 too big to fit your bellhousing but thats quick and easy on a lathe
Yes,it is. I have one I am going to use behind the 312 Y-Block in my 34 Ford pu,***uming I ever get around to working on the damn thing. IIRC,you also have to redrill and tap two bolts in the bellhousing (top?) to make it work. They have that long shift lever that makes them look like it might be a 39 Ford trans,but they are open driveline and have the OD. Not the toughest trans in the world,but plenty good if you don't dog it all the time. I seriously doubt a flat 6 or V-8 would even make enough power to hurt it.
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