Technical Bead Rolling & 10 Miles of Bad Road

I would try pairing up your largest male die with your next size smaller female die. If I understood Lazze right in that video, that's what he was suggesting, and it makes sense. In fact, I'm going to try that on a piece tomorrow just to see how well it works. No matter what, keep working at it, and you will land on a technique that works for you. Keep us updated on your progress.

 

Great information, just keep it coming. I set my HF bead roller with a dump truck steering wheel. Still need to add some reinforcement. Only played around with it, but will have some floor panels for my A coupe, definitely need to learn the proper way.

 

"I would try pairing up your largest male die with your next size smaller female die. If I understood Lazze right in that video, that's what he was suggesting, and it makes sense. In fact, I'm going to try that on a piece tomorrow just to see how well it works. No matter what, keep working at it, and you will land on a technique that works for you. Keep us updated on your progress."
Yes I seen that and will experiment with that idea soon...............................

 

I have helped many with this same problem and had great results with laying the panel up on the steel top bench and first coin the ends with a proper sized tool I have Delrin tools that go into a holder that I have modified to represent the shape of the bead end whether round or pointed . This has to be bone no matter what else you do . Then I take the same tool with a chisel bit made from the same Delrin . By the way this is easier with the panel clamped to the table or in my case I have person that brought the panel hold it to the bench .

Now with the chisel bit hold it right next to the bead and aggressively hammer the bead line all the way around . The reason this works so well is that with the Delrin you aren't stretching anything but just setting the bead line .

All this said you have already seen the results of pre stretching especially with the more lower end rollers as they have a lot of flex and won't hold consistent pressure to force the metal into the female of the bead and set the line edge . It is always easier preventing any problems instead of repairing , but knowledge gained will prevent future mistakes

Don't take the I'll advised suggestion of shrinking anywhere on your panel. When you do any beading or flanging on a panel with a bead roller , it is trying to steal the metal from other parts of the panel to achieve the process. Why would you want to take away any more?

 

Wow! what a wealth of information! Thanks to all who are participating in this discussion.I have been just stumbling through this process for awhile now with various results. If I absorb the info on this thread I should be able to approach beading with more confidence.

 

Patterns say differently, much differently by the way. It's the location of the shrink.
I'm too busy to run a test and show the same process.

 

Well it's a tug of war "somewhere" and I wasn't winning at least on this go round!

 

OK, Got to play around a little bit more today with the roller. Needed a 27"x6" 18 gage sheet for the door threshold with just 2 beads. Something very simple I realize! Since I haven't had time to buy some tools mentioned in this thread I used some info here instead. I reversed rolled the beads lightly, flipped it over and finished the bead, than "coined" the bead ends with a makeshift gasket cutter just like the big boys. After all that I even rolled the bottom edge inward to give it a more finished look. It seemed each process got the panel a little flatter, enough so that I didn't have to do any massaging afterward. I am still getting dimpled lines along the sides of the bead caused by my dies rear shoulder digging in, will have throw them in the Lathe and round them off. I know, Baby steps..................................
EDIT; Forgot to mention I did pair up the biggest male die to the smallest female die, like mentioned above in another post and in the video.......................

 

See, you're gettin it figured out already. Lookin good.

 

Got the floor and door threshold installed, I have some shrinking to do in the "field" of floor panels to get it to lay a little flatter. Do I heat a dime size spot and hammer or heat a dime size spot than air cool with compressor or heat a dime size spot and quench with a cold wet rag? What are the good & bad of each process? Thanks................................................

 

Picture the grid even, and that's a flat piece if steel before you messed with it.
The bent grids are distortion from shaping, different from forming.
Forming is an even operation or force applied performed end to end evenly. See the word EVEN it's important.

The first pic, it's your bead running 45* top right to lower left.
I couldn't find one in proper orientation for you so use your imagination.
You "formed" a bead in the middle of the sheet, stopping before the ends so it's not an even force applied to the whole piece of sheet and you created "shape" where you want a flat surface. For it to get back to FLAT you need to even out the FORCE or move the metal back to an even grid shape.


This represents a shopping cart ding, they are stretched and need shrinking.


This is a crown shape.



This is going to be a heat shrink in a flat piece.
If you were to apply this force to a flat sheet or grid it will be pretty shitty.
If you applied this to the above dome it will begin to return the grid to a more even shape


After heat shrinking and hammer stretching it very evenly the best it looks kinda like this


For comparison this is what a "form" force to steel would like on the grid .
3 bends right? Sorta like a bead right?

 

You had me up until the last pic!
Which of the 3 processes I mentioned above do you like using? Since you only mentioned Hammer does that in your eyes rule out cold air and or a wet rag?
Believe me I know how long it takes to respond to a question especially as detailed as you are and it is very appreciated! Thanks.........................................

 

I've said that for me and me skill set that heat shrinks are like planting roses with a back hoe or killing flys with a shot gun. Meaning that it makes way more work , analogy:: patching backhoe Ruts and shot gun drywall damage vs a spade to plant and a fly swatter to squish them.

Heating then Hammering the rise seems to work the best and easiest. Quenching the red hot spot with a rag makes the steel hard to work again or further.

Why don't you post up a pic of the floor with some marks where you think the heat shrinks would go. Maybe one of the other guys more proficient can chime in.

Why did the last pic throw you?

 

Second to last pic confused me, the last pic now never showed up on my screen, first time I seen that one! Edit maybe?
On this install I will have to live with manually flatting it out, the next one I do I will use info given on this thread to minimize/eliminate before hand the warpage.
I am not as smart as George I don't know how to take a pic than puts arrows or circles on a pic. Might have to just use a marker on the floor, take pic, etc. Thanks again 31!

 

Id do the tape and marker thing too.

The second to last pic-
It's a visual representation of the metal .

Ok. The starting point is an even grid, the ending point goal is an even grid. Heat Shrinking and hammer stretching get the grid flat but it's not even. The total area is the same but for each small (shrink) square there needs to be a bigger (stretched) square or the total area must change.

 

I ignorantly thought just buying a Bead Roller would be the answer to making my own beaded panels rite off the bat. Like everything else it usually isn't just one thing that works it's magic but several. Here's some follow up pic's of where I am at with the '34 P/U floor, drive line tunnel and trans "hump". I can't say I have mastered the roller BUT I have learned several tricks from this thread so thanks to all! Da Tinman was rite about it laying flatter when clamped down and installed. Haven't had to shrink or stretch any part of it yet but I am not done either, still have the trans hump to build, form, weld in. Seat runners will flatten out that area even better. I have spot welded 1"X1/4" metal strips under the inside perimeter of floor, every spot weld was than hammered down as it cooled, than ground down flush. This build doesn't require a bolt in trans/driveline cover. Ran out of metal for the trans cover on a Sat. will get some more sheet tomorrow. Anyone have a great way to form the trans tunnel? Thanks again!

 

I've been brainstorming how to do my trans tunnel too. Came across this pic rotten Leonard posted which inspired me to think different. Although I don't want to build the tunnel like Leonard did, I realized I could make it in two or more pieces

I think what I'm going to do is 'roll form' the tunnel in two halves (running lengthwise), and put a step in the center with the bead roller for the two panels to intersect.








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Not my style of tunnel either. Started making a wood buck the shape I need, will make a card board pattern over it and try to transfer that to 18 gauge. Maybe need more wood support in the middle but haven't figured out how to get that angle...................

 

Find a big slip roll. I used one from work and it turned out nice.

 

That would be ideal but no such animal around here, got to use what's at hand!

 

It looks like /appears the firewall side of the Buck is not a true semi circle.
That's going to make your buck & tunnel and life more complicated.

It's not, but-
If it were a true semi circle, the buck mid way standard wound go at 45* and be exactly the same size as the center with the inside corners cut at 45* and the paper/metal would roll right around- you could probably do that over your knee.

In your case the mid standard would still go at 45* with the corners beveled the same however the taper of that standard would be different than the center with the firewall side being taller. Taller means that there's physically more wood (obviously) than the center standard. Logically and a natural consequence of this is that there needs to be more paper, more metal there at that point than the center. How is it that you can have the center with less metal and gradually adding more metal few inches around the curve ???
3 ways-
1 The center needs shrunk so the sides HAVE more metal surface than the center ,,,
2 the sides need stretched so the sides GET more metal than the center ,,,
3, the the tunnel needs to be in two pieces with a joint down the center. Here The weld joint would be straight, but the patterned pieces would be gently curved and forced into a straight line

For a visualization, Take a plastic funnel and force it out of round to simulate your curve change on the fire wall end. You'll get 3 ugly bumps or a triangle of deformation.

 

Yep, No semi circle, that would be to easy! My first choice is one piece tunnel BUT if that's not possible with knowledge & tools on hand I will go to plan "B" 2 piece tunnel. Your post above was great help as always!

 

Make a few paper patterns, getting the paper as flat as you can will tell you exactly what needs to happen. If the paper bunches up, those are shrinks, if the paper won't fit and needs cut to lay flat, those are stretches. Cardboard patterns are great for things that won't be fitting into SHAPES only form. If it were a true semi circle cardboard would do it just fine because there's no SHAPE only form.

 

Per 31vicky I changed the firewall pattern to a semi circle for the wood buck. This is my new Slip Roller, you slip as many ratchet tie downs you have over the sheet metal and ratchet it into submission over the wood buck................................................

 

looks like an MC Escher print run amok...


Again, really good stuff Vicky, thanks for posting!