Technical ***March 2017 Banger Meet - The Luck of the 4 Banger***

I remember assembling motors on the ground as I could not afford an engine stand or most anything else . made me a good "shade tree" mechanic . always that way until I retired . got my first 2 car garage just lately . never had a garage before . all done outside . one winter I was replacing rods , had a tarp over the 4" ice with a space heater in front . could only work 2 hrs a day at 15* . but when done it ran great ! life has changed for the better

 

Tod Buttermore's 1st 5 Main Aluminum A block

 

Tod's Alum block looks great and He was listening.

J

 

yes listened and has done a great job will await cost and avaliability of cranks

 

don't forget the rods too

J

 

Tod just said over on the FordBarn that he might talk to Scat about a suitable crank.

 

Tom will be happy to make more, we have had no issues with them.
Just pulled a crank out after two years thrashing, using the bearings again.

J

 

That's fine for the street and strip; but for high G turns (flat and banked). and many other forces like changing track conditions (I.E. hard racing); those vertical type baffles are no help. "Been There/Done That....Blew Up!" But..I'm good now. I put that stuff all behind years ago!

So if you use that system; and don't have all the unique forces that can pull and throw oil around a basicly stock pan set up, you'll be O.K. I just can't afford to jeopardize a very expensive set up.

 

I'm thinking that Crower may already have five main cranks out that would fit. Of course, that could mean many things. What about cams for tod's block? Life ain't easy, is it?

 

So Dawg, under those conditions do you recommend dry sump? Don't see as there is any other choice--

Herb

 

Dry sumps certainly are preferable for the conditions I describe. Then you come into a number of other challenges. One is having a reservoir that should be designed rid the air from the oil. The system I have to use on my car is dictated by available space. To run my race car with most of the vintage Auto Racing associations that I race with; I MUST have battery (not only to start the engine, but to run the engine at the consistant speeds I need.). "Back in the Day", cars like mine had an oil reservoir under the cowl, over the leg well. I have a light weight high amperage AGM battery there. I have an alternator to keep that battery from falling off during the race (a magneto "robs" about what it gains Mags are sometimes needless when we have 45 to 50,000 volt coils available. As described elsewhere in this Thread, I use a series of HORIZONTAL structures take the oil out of the crankcase and "trap" up to 8 to 10 quarts (or more if the engine is not running) of oil in a bunker, well away from the "hurricane" whirling above. Losing aeration (negative pressure from above), it's pumped back into the system by a "Single Stage' pump. "Long Story/Longer", what I have could be called a type of a "Dry Sump". (Note the bottom of "The Bunker" sticking out from the engine underpan. I think that I could have probably made less intrusive; but when you are a "Cut and Try Guy" like me; sometimes there is more"Cut and less Try".

 

Can't get enough power??

Add two......... engines not cylinders that is.



This was sent to me without any attached info.
First thought was "Those wheels are not going to take it" Perhaps it only has one gear.

DO Fronty's are rare and wonderful........ If I had two I'd build two cars.....but what do I know? I don't even have one ........... yet

Non-sklids on there front only.... Perhaps That's a clue the rig is for DRIFYING

 

Bluto that car can be found over on the model t ford club of america forum built by Mark Herdman. I think youll find it around 2014-2015 if i recall correctly.

 

Is that the Fronty radiator/shell that was here on the HAMB a few years back?

 

Thanks Dawg. Aerobatic aircraft oil reservoirs have difficulty de-airing the oil also.

Herb

 

Truth of the matter is that even "wet sump" motors have the same issue.
People confuse oil starvation with deaerating the oil. Two completely different problems, each with solutions.
Dry sump tank design is very easy to work with, compared to having a homogenizer spinning in the oil sump.
I am not going to even mention windage scraping here, it is a science in itself.
There are oil separators available on the scavenge end of the dry sump pumps, two lines back to tank, one mostly oil, the other mostly air.
J

 

The problem is also that as much air is pumped as oil into the tank. Generally most don't have the room to fit a large enough tank to help the air escape the oil.

 

Just wondering can you get the Thomas heads again or still not available as yet


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I thought that they were available again. I think Tod Buttermore does the final machining on them. Try contacting Snyders to confirm availability.

 

Ok thanks I'll give them a go


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While this is true to some degree, the dry sump system has to be designed properly. This starts with the scavenge system. Most folks try to over vent the crankcase to allow scavenging, this is not necessarily true. For example, my current system has no crankcase vents at all.
We can go on about this, but, the bottom line is that there is going to be damage if the pump is not constantly fed oil and the pressure is interrupted going to the bearings. It is guaranteed that the oil will not be free from "aeration" in either setup. The less "air" the better.
J

 

Moved the Phaeton into my mechanics shop where he is letting me use a bay. Got some time to work on the motor. Lion head went on last week, today was making spark plug wires and and trying to figure out the mag. There is very little info, like none, on setting it up. Most stuff I found was on the petenpol airplane sites. It may be 180 out but we'll find out quick when we fire it up next week any tips on setup would be appreciated.

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No reason to be 180 off...
...with the timing pin screwed into the timing gear cover, unscrew it, reverse it, rotate the engine until it goes into depression on cam gear, Eureka Top dead center number one.

 

That's how I did it but I don't know if I have #1 correct on the mag or if I can choose which is number one. Haven't found any info other than a photo on a petenpol site, as to which direction the mag faces or if that even matters as well.

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You can choose #1. If your mag has an advance mechanism you need to set your engine to the number of degrees before top dead center you want to fire at, perhaps 7 degrees. This can be done easily by googling "degree wheel", printing out one about the diameter of your crank pulley and glue or otherwise stick on, then making a pointer from wire or whatever to fasten to the block or timing cover and bend to point to 0 degrees no matter where it is on the pulley. Then back the engine (CCW) to your 7 degees before TDC or 93 degrees on the degree wheel. Then assuming you have set the magneto point gap properly, put clean piece of thin paper or a .002 feeler gauge between the points and rotate the mag opposite the direction the rotor turns when engine turns (CW) until with a steady light pull on the paper or feeler gauge the points just begin to open.

There are a bajillion Model A timing posts on the net, this is my down and dirty method from my first ride in 1950 below.

 

Does anyone supply cam bearings or is there a bearing from another make car that can be used in our bangers?
Thanks in advance
Brian

 

Thanks great info. Everything I Googled is for V8s and Scintilla's and I wasn't sure if any would apply. No advance it's preset and static with a lag angle for start up.

Cool roadster. The Phaeton is going to have plaid seats too, as its my favorite color.[emoji4]

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Are you sure the mag direction in Anti-clockwise? There should be a direction/rotation arrow on the mag body. Don't trust the arrow on the cap. All my S-V mags turn clockwise. The tag tells you the mag's total advance and the starting impulse degree. On four cylinder cars I normally put in about 32 degrees If the tag says 30 degrees then you can put in 2 more degrees static. Some mags take a lot more static/initial and it gets hard on the starter motor. Be careful a hot mag can bite you pretty hard. I use pair of linemen's long rubber gloves.

Once you get the engine to run at low idle you can use a vacuum gauge to adjust the timing to the highest manifold vacuum. Good mags are really good! I had a motor with a 300-300 degree cam that would idle at 550 RPM and run 6000 plus at full chat

 

Long ago, I recall an article on a four banger flathead build that used an early Pinto bearing. Block had to be line honed to fit. Vague info, I know, but you can check dimensions and go from there.

 

Jim I was hoping you'd chime in you always have great info and stories, thanks. It's a Wico JEM 1509 so yes anti (or counter) clockwise no arrows or numbers on the cap. I got it from a member here on the HAMB. I won't have access to it until next Friday as my buddy's shop is closed today and tomorrow, but beats the hell out of working in the container.

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