Technical Ford 351 W vs. 351 C engines

I got 2 new complete dressed up rebuilt 1995 Ford 351 W ( roller cam & stock heads converted to carb and mech fuel pump ) and a 351 C (with 2 V heads ) engines-- any EXPERT advice which one would be preferred and look best in the engine bay--- of my 1955 F-100

 

I prefer the Cleavland motor. Looks and performance. But they have oiling problems, I believe if you search someone has posted information how to overcome the issues. Not an issue if you are not running it at high RPM.

Most here will tell you that the Windsor is the way to go and it will certainly have better aftermarket support.

 

I prefer the Windsor. It is much more streetable,more performance upgrades are available. The Cleveland intake wise are to much for lower RPM's compared to the Windsor..The Windsor is also lighter .

 

C is the best designed performance engine . Canted valves breath so much better . Just be causous on using the coffer thermostat , C engines have a limiter that controls the amount of opening to slow flow rate for cooling . Aftermarket stats may not have this limiter and you be looking for an overheating issue and never find it . I have had both , C heads on a W block make Boss Engine . Calculate that equation ! Which ever you choose both are good and will give many miles of fun .

 

I had a '56 F-100 with a 351W 30+ years ago and I liked it.

 

As a die hard Ford guy, I'd take a C over a W any day. If brought up to Cobra Jet spec's they run fantastic. Oiling can be good with cam bearing upgrade from Tim Meyer


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If you need the power and have the $$$ go with the C. If you just want a streetable reliable ride go with the W.

 

If it's just something to push your f-100 around use the Windsor. If your going for a performance build then the Cleveland would be the way to go.

I guess it depends on what you want out of your truck.

 

There ya go. ^^^

I will run a W motor 2 ways, one if that is all I got and the other if I got a set of C heads to throw on it.

I have owned both Ws and Cs and prefer the C. Intakes are not that hard to find for them and if I don't have an intake I own metal and a welder.

 

Either way, I think you are a lucky SOB.

 

your F100 engine bay will take either... i like windsors...

 

Windsors are cheaper to build and with the heads available today you can make easy horsepower.
You can build a 408 stroker Windsor as cheap as a stock Cleveland without worrying about oiling problems.

 

They make port plates for the 4 barrel Cleaveland heads to make them work better at lower RPM, the big ports flow better at high RPM but are sluggish on the low end. For all around driveability the 2 barrel heads work the best.

 

I'll vote for the Cleveland...

 

I like Cleaveland to, they just fill up the engine compartment. Windsors just look lost in a big engine compartment

 

Can you see a W in a 55 engine bay? I'd go with a newer generation 4.6 or bigger modular if you wanting a change. But that's me.

 

And the "C" has "big block" torque in a small block package. The nice thing about both is that they share the same bellhousing pattern and motor mounts. I really like both myself. I have a four barrel "C" in my basement but I run the "W" for just street peace of mind. And.....like said above....the aftermarket is really "W" friendly. Can't go wrong with either choice as far as I'm concerned.

 

The 4V heads are for a revver. We had an OT car back in '72 with a boss 302 in it. The real deal boss. The damned thing didn't run worth a flip under about 4k but when it hit its sweet spot it was Katy bar the door. We liked it real well though. high rev cruising is a rush.

 

Let's look at it this way
Weight W is lighter than C
Torque W in ALL stock applications
Peak power C takes it.
Parts availability. W has a 40 year production run and aftermarket development
C was only 4 years and the only real new tech in 20+ years are alum heads
Cost a pump gas 300 hp W will cost 1/3 less then a C
1969 windsors have a slightly shorter deck height, so the pistons are often hard find.
The C motor has smaller main journal which help lower bearing speed.
On the subject of looks the Cleveland only has a limited # of valve covers, manifolds, but it does fill the engine bay more.
The Windsor has a dozen or more stock and after market valve covers and the the intake options include 2v,4v,3 2v, dual quad,webber, and Efi.
In the last 20 years the only time I've encouraged a customer to yes a Cleveland is in a OEM restoration.
My personal recomendation is 94-96 block(factory roller cam), edelbrock performer package, 9-9.5 comp. and rum the wheels off it.

 

I have had several of each and like some others have said, it is hard to go wrong with either one. I like the looks of the C better and in stock form it will usually outperform the W. But the W is better supported in the aftermarket and parts are cheaper and easier to find used. Most machine shops will also be more familiar with the W. The C has its' quirks ( odd thermostat, 2bbl heads were prone to crack when over heated, lifter bores can get sloppy and cause oiling problems, etc.) but when built right, it is a real neck snapper. That said, my last W was a stock stroke and easily turned low 11s in the quarter so don't lose any sleep over this choice. Just pick one and get building!

 

A lot will depend on what year 351W you have, or more specifically, which heads it has on it. Only the early motors had the big valve heads, starting in '77 they all got the 'standard' 302 head with the small valves. Ford only factory-installed the 'good' GT40 head on one 351W vehicle (the very limited production 351W-powered '93 Mustang Cobra R). If you hang around boatyards, you can find 'marinized' 351Ws with both the early C9/D0 heads or later versions with the GT40 heads (you'll also find the C9/D0 heads on marinized 302s... with screw-in studs and guideplates from the factory) that were sold for boat use. So if both motors are 'stock rebuilds', the 351C gets the nod for power. But you still have the oiling issue, and a near-complete teardown is needed to address it. And the C is 'old tech', with very little development work done since it's heyday in the 70s. As pointed out, it likes to rev and isn't a particularly good low-rpm performer. If you want a C-type motor with some grunt, look at the high-deck 351M/400. Use the 400 crank (or a stroker) for 400+ cubes, now you've got enough displacement to really use those large ports. I put one together for a guy with a Bronco and it hauled ass from off-idle. Downside is the only auto trans that bolts up is the C6.

The 351W with a set of aftermarket heads & cam will easily match the power of the stock 351C, and will have better street manners.

 

So how does your basement go? How is the fuel economy?

 

Right now I think it's running on half water with all the rain in the northeast.

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I have a 351W and C4 in my 1939 Ford Coupe. Warmed up mild stock 1969 engine. 60k miles in my coupe - runs great. All and all - nice engine for the past 25 years of use. Budget rebuild - no expensive parts - 69 stock heads and 4v Edel. intake and carb - block hugger headers is about it. No issues.

Also have a 351C- 4V Cobra Jet and 4 speed TC toploader in a 1939 Ford Sedan Delivery. Bone stock - runs better that my coupe - but the 4 speed is the main reason with 3.56 gears vs C-4 and 3.00 in the coupe. Stock - vs stock - stronger than the 351W - but 351C Cobra-jet 4-v has big valves and 4 bolt mains - sorta a lower compression Boss 351-C - rare engine. The 351W is easy to find and not rare.

If rebuilding - I would do a 351 - W stroker to 396 - 406 or so and nice aftermarket heads - the aftermarket support for 302/351 W is great vs chasing old 4 year run Cleveland items. a 351W stroker has big block power and small block weight.

Years back - I put a 1971 thunder jet 429 and C-6 in a 1940 Ford. factory 360 horse and a 3.25 gears. Very impressive to look at - but too big and heavy. I will not do it again in a 1940 Ford - a 351W stroker will do the same thing with more power and 1/2 the weight. EPA killed the 351-C just like the diesel 7.3 - both were 2 of Fords best engines.

 

The Windsor design is a pass. car motor while the Cleveland is a more performance design the weakness of the Windsor is it's 2 bolt main bottom end where as the Cleveland is know for cooling issues and piston scrub due to it's wider block and piston angle, it is also intrinsically heavier....I know this isn't exactly answering your question but if I had 'em...I'd build a Cleve-or....there is a company that makes intake manifolds to mate the C heads to the W block, bore out and hog out the pan rails on the Windsor block for a big stroke,4 bolt mains, stick the Cleveland heads on it and make a 427 Boss!....but to answer your question the Windsor is easiest to find parts for, is lighter, and for engine compartment considerations is narrower and has a zillion factory oilpan/front accessories options

 

The Cleveland 2v heads are open chamber (no quench) which can be a problem if you increase compression on pump gas.

 

The 4V Cleveland heads ARE a problem on pump gas, especially in 1970.

Well, unless you have a good supply of 100-octane.

 

I have a 2 bbl 1971 Cleveland and a few 351 W 's. That Cleveland was pretty sludged up. I put a oil pump and new timing chain on it. The valve seals where bad and it smoked a bit when first started. All the winsors I had where very good engines. and I think they made as much power as the Cleveland? I once owned a mach1 mustang with a Cleveland and that thing was really fast. Didn't handle worth a durn at high speed but it would hide the speedometer needle.

 

u have to be careful of the 351w roller motors.....some crack at the cam bearing journals and can't be repaired

 

Just sayin' .......