Technical Rebuilding an 8BA - your thoughts?

Hey guys, years ago I bought, dis***embled and stored a 1952 Ford 8BA that had spun a bearing. It came from a truck with a PTO trans that I sold. The crank is badly scored and the the big-end on one rod is shot. The rest of the motor was caked with grime but otherwise in good shape. I picked up a set of used rods and everything got put on hold.

Now I want to rebuild it. I've built (***embled) a few motors before, but never a flathead. And I still consider myself an amateur when it comes to motors.

My question, should I;

1. have a machine shop fully rebuild the motor?
2. have the machine shop machine everything and build it myself?
3. have the machine shop machine everything AND set up the valve train and rebuild the rest myself?

I like doing thing myself and I ***ume I will save some money if I do, but those valves look like a bear to do.

Thoughts? Advice?

Thanks,
Carl

 

I've worked on a few flatheads, but never rebuilt one. (unless you count an A model). Most machine shops out there now are just like us, no experience with them. I would be very careful who I let do any machine work on it. Good Luck, sounds like a fun project.

 

not a flathead expert...but since your crank is shot i'd go for the 1/4" longer stroke mercury crankshaft

 

If you don't already have a book or two on rebuilding flatheads I suggest you get some and read them. If you enjoy the challenge of building engines you should have fun building a flathead. The valve train although simple does require some careful measuring to get valve spring pressures right if you change the cam and or valves. Adjustable lifters are a must have in my opinion. I chose to have new seats installed and valves ground by a machine shop.

I installed a 4" **** crank,H Beam Rods and new pistons this time. Can't hardly tell the difference in performance. Good luck and have fun!

 

I put one together when I was 15 and it ran. So how hard can it be? I would say #2.

 

39, I do have a couple books and will re-read them (it was long ago).

Regarding the valve train - I do plan to use the adjustable lifters, but how much of the original valve train should I even consider reusing? The cam, springs, valve?

 

You make a strong argument sir!

 

Unless you have a detailed history on those parts, I would replace it all. Would you trust a brand new rebuilt motor with 70 year old valve springs that could have unknown millions of miles and thousands of hours??? And who builds a hot rod flathead without changing the cam anyways.....

 

Have you gotten the old valves out yet?? That is the hardest part in tearing one of these down. I ended up cutting out about half of them to get them out so I ended up buying all new. My machine shop charges were around $900.00 including cutting the crank, installing cam bearings. bore the cylinders and install one sleeve. The rest I did myself and bought new pistons, rings, bearings & a complete valve train I am at around $2,000.00.

 

Flatford39, yes I've fully broken down the motor - which is why I'm timid about rebuilding the valve train myself.

FrozenMerc, good point! My original plan was to replace all the parts but I thought I'd ask.

 

Valvetrain is pretty easy. I would def use all new parts . The valves, guides,springs, retainers are all ***embled on the bench. Dont forget new seals on all the intake valve guides. If you dont have a crowsfoot tool to pull the guides down to insert the retainers. Get one. They make a difference. If you plan on using adjustable lifters i would drill the base of each lifter bore with a long 1/8" drill bit, so you can insert a tool to hold the lifter still while you adjust the valve lash. Install new cam, drop the lifters in, install new valve ***emblies. Install retainers to hold the valve ***emblies in place.

 

Sounds like a plan! Thanks for the post - very helpful.
~ Carl

 

I would go with #2 since specialized machines are needed to machine a block
However, make sure you bore it to a standard size where pistons, etc. are available.
Also, plan to have rotating ***embly balanced.
Zip over to www.fordbarn .com and pose your question.
But first, buy and read the best flathead rebuilding books in print today.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24542

 

Oh if you plan on drilling the lifter bases make sure they are drilled all the way at the bottom. To high and they wont go in the slot on the lifter. And drill them before you bring the block to be machined. Less mess to worry about with a clean block. In this pic my lifter bores are drilled and also radiused the tops so
Its easier to get a wrench in

 

@flatford39 Is that $2,000 including the $900 for machine work or is that just parts ($2,900 total)? Also, where did you buy your parts? I'm sure I can get everything from Speedway but I wasn't sure if there was a better option out there. I've been stuck for a while on removing the last few valves but I'll be ready for the machine shop if I can get past those.

 

These charges sound reasonable. I had the exact things done by the machine shop, plus, they ***embled the short block and they charged me $1300. I also expect to be up and running for just a squidge more than $2000. This is for a 258 incher with (used) finned aluminum heads, an Isky Max-1, a 4-bbl (also used), and a used Mallory distributor.

So much for the $5000 flathead rebuild.

 

Yes it includes the machine shop. Bought alot of my stuff on line and from Mac Van Pelts. You gotta shop around for the best pricing. I think I bought my bearings from Speedway (King Bearings) and everything else either from Van Pelts, rock Auto or an Ebay vendor. Like I said you really need to shop around and look for deals.

 

Yes it can be done. $1,300 is a great price ***embled. I just like turning wrenches. It's therapy.

 

cederholm;
Read this thread. Very informative.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210319&highlight=flathead+book+rebuild

 

If you can rebuild your flathead for under 3 grand you will be doing well.If you p*** on all of the traditional speed equipment,such as Aluminum heads, multi carb intak with new carbs, headers etc it will be much easier to keep it that low. I didn't do that. I went all out. It looks great but cost a bunch even though it was built in my shop.

Your question about how much of the valve train to keep has already been answered by others. I replaced all of mine except the adjustable lifters. I sent my lifters out to be reconditioned. A new dome shape was machined on the cam to lifter interface. I had new hardened valve seats installed in the block also.

 

Attention to detail is critical. Satisfaction and pride awaits those who overcome their fears and spends the time doing the little things. I can ***emble a Volkswagen air cooled engine in about 7 hours,had about 80 hours in my last build..hand lapping,polishing with jewelers rouge. Smoothing oil galley ports..."blueprinting" the oil pump...match porting manifolds,deshrouding valves..its damn near endless the things you can do on a bench,by hand, that compliments what the machine shop does..

 

Very helpful insight all! Thanks for the links and comments. Based on all your feedback I'll be replacing everything in the valve train and the cam, and of course all the usual rebuild items. I'll have the machine shop determine if the crank is salvageable and replace as needed. Due to the rarity of used and the cost of a new Merc crank I'll most likely stay stock Ford, unless something comes up.

Mostly I'm excited about ***embling the motor myself, that was my preference. I'm not in a rush so I can take my time researching and doing it right.

What are your thoughts on the distributor and water pumps? Should I plan to send the distributor out for a rebuild or just replace the points/condenser and test it first? And can the water pumps be tested before ***embly?

 

I never liked messing with points. I would go with an electronic conversion from Bubba, or a Pertronics conversion. I chose to use an MSD distributor on mine. Kind of expensive though. Water pumps can be rebuilt but new ones with sealed bearings and better flow are available from sources like Bob Drake. They are not too expensive.

 

As to a distributor on an 8BA, a lot depends on whether you are planning on doing any modifications, either now or down the road. A stock Load-a-matic distributor will work fine on a completely stock engine, but on nothing else. If you are planning on any changes to the carburetion, you will need a different distributor, either a converted SBC unit or (my preference) an old Mallory. As to water pumps, 8BA pumps were much better than their predecessors; I have had good luck with regular rebuilds from NAPA. All of the aftermarket ones are good though.

One last thing regarding points vs. electronic ignition. Points are fine and go a long time before maintenance is needed, especially the amount these cars are usually driven (I put new points on my '51 when I got it in 1987; I just replaced them, even though they still looked good after 30k miles). There have been cases where cars with old style electrical components (esp. generators and solid plug wires), can generate random voltage spikes that can destroy newer electronic ignition units and leave you stranded on the side of the road. A lot of guys with electronic ignitions carry a spare set of points in case something like this happens. This has always amused me; why not just eliminate the middleman?

Like anything else, you should evaluate what you want to accomplish and plan for the proper parts accordingly.

 

Very helpful about the water pumps and distributor. Thank you!

~ Carl

 

Carl, Consider buying one of these custom made brackets when you start
building your flatty. Only a few left. Not expensive. They give the heads a nice clean look.
Bolts to water pump. Just send me a PM. JIM

 

great flatty thread.....and yes I have at least a half dozen built books from Tex to the latest....did a mild build on a Merc but really need a shop to balance it all.

 

Okay, I know I need to sit down with my flathead books and do some reading, but since you guys have been so helpful...

What are your thoughts on a crank? As 39 states my concern above. The big picture is a future 1930 model A coupe build and since I have the motor I want to start there. I want to build a traditional rod with focus on clean craftsmanship (to the best of my ability). I want the motor to be build correctly for reliability and longevity, it's not my intent to drag or impress people with power. ...but it is still a hot rod!

Also, based on budget, a **** crank might mean I have to run stock heads. A stock crank might open my budget for some aluminum heads.

 

I wouldnt worry about going with a **** crank. Ive heard the performance gains arent that great. Find a good stock ford crank or 4" merc crank. If you do get a used crank make sure you pull the welch plugs out before its sent to the machine shop. Or have the machine shop do it before they clean it and machine it. Lots of gunk build up in those journals. Dont want it plugging up the oil holes and ruining your new build