A recent discussion between corncobcoupe and myself prompted me to start a thread to further elaborate on our views on this and other related topics...feel free to chime in and give your thoughts and opinions...
I do believe within the coming years we will see a renewed workforce within the US after a lot of the jobs that have left in the past years come back...and I firmly believe that a lot of jobs WILL be coming back, it's just a matter of WHEN...as far as overseas jobs and quality go, there are some things that they do that we as US citizens in general have grown accustomed to not doing anymore...a lot of that has to do with how slack our society is with pride, and how we seem to think everyone "owes us something" (ie. you're underpaid, overworked, not respected)...the fact of the matter is I believe we have put ourselves in this position as a society by relying on our technological advances rather than good old blood and sweat...my dad and I were just talking yesterday about how fat americans are getting (myself included) due to the fact that while we may "work" nearly as many hours, the amount of "labor" we do is significantly reduced, thusly we take in more than we exert...I believe that this goes hand in hand with our poor workmanship of past years compared to "the good old days" when american craftsmanship reigned supreme...nowadays (as I stated in an earlier post) we can hardly afford to buy the tools that we are payed to produce because rather than relying on our pride in our products, our marketing staff has been relying on the price of our products to offset sales...and once people slow down buying things because they're "too expensive" it starts a vicious circle of price raising to offset lack of sales, and so forth...
all i can comment on is what i see around my area. quailty is a big issue that seems to be driven by profit or greed. it's all complex and i try to see both sides of the coin. people (by this i mean society not one individual or group) are really self centered and superficial, it's all about what you have or perceived to have. that is the drive to make more money, cut corners and take advantage of others. same goes with businesses why hire quality people when you can save pay by hiring one quality person to babysit other unqualified people and the ceo can get thier yearly bonus/pay raise. to me it seems like no one cares anymore, employees will jump ship at the drop of a hat for a few dollars more (even if the company is honest and quality) and companies will let employees go after 10, 12, 15+ years of loyal, hardworking service to save a few dollars. california has made it hard on alot of businesses to stay here and in turn they have either left the state or left the counrty. to me it has to start with the individual people, if they won't change then nothing will happen. my .02
I think there's a major problem with people of my age and the generations after us thinking we're too good to do some of the work our fathers and grandfathers busted their ***es to take pride in...as a whole I think we've become spoiled self-centered pussies who won't break a sweat to earn an honest buck...and to top it off when you do bust your *** and do good work you get paid the same as the ******* next to you who screws everything up and doesn't hardly do much to begin with...as the them from Family Guy states "what happened to those good old fashioned family values, on which we used to rely?"...between the self-centered young workers and the self-centered corporate management something's got to change...and I doubt much of the problem lies within our families and kids since most of us have learned how to bust our ***es and take pride in our work, and teach our kids that or have learned that from our parents/environment...
OK fellers this is #1 O/T #2 Ripe for a political viewpoint Behave! Kinda funny coming from me huh Johnny? I'm such a ****head
I think it's perfectly fine to discuss these things...even if they aren't directly related to hot rodding, they're related to each and every one of our livelihoods outside of the hobby...as long as it doesn't get out of hand, I think we should leave this thread open...
Yeah, a little O/T, I guess, but what the hell. I have a decidedly MidWest point of view on it. I think the majority of the problem lies in what Johnny said earlier about family values. There is an "en***lement" mentality that just doesn't fit with what is compe***ive these days. That's the crux of the problem with GM and the UAW right now. But look at it this way. GM has to pay its workers plus health care equalling over 7 billion in 2006. That amount could be spent on R/D for better mileage or seven new car platforms. Toyota, on the other hand, pays its workers in Japan, but they have nationalized health care, so Toyota is effectively "ahead" 7 billion to develop hybrids and what not. "If" GM is to be compe***ive, they either have to start sending jobs overseas or get the government to reforn the health care system (which I don't see happening anytime soon). It's a domino effect, and I can see it happening for all big corporations doing business in the US. So, if I once saw my father and my grandfather being able to retire after 30+ years of dedicated, continuous labor, what is happening now? I am asked to spend more on everything, while being asked to do more at work, and recieve nothing to compensate for the increases in cost of living, heat, etc. How CAN people be loyal to one employer for that long when the game is changing that radically?
I love to complain. Everyone does. But complaining in a hotrod forum ain't gonna change anything. I don't mind that it's O/T, but imagine redirecting even the minimal amount of energy you spent writing up your issues here to actually changing the system. You say that GM is in trouble because the Japanese companies don't have the same health care obligations, and the government isn't willing to do anything about it. So change it. Vote for people that are willing to do something about it, or better yet, join the government yourself. Run for office. There's an appe***e out there for people who don't ******** the situation, speak from the heart, and can connect with honest, hard-workin' Joes. People will be more willing to listen to you if they see you are trying to be part of the solution. If that seems out of your realm of possibility, then all you can ask of yourself and your peers is to be the best damn human being you can be. If that means not being self-centered yourself and raising your children right, then that's one small step in the right direction. Imagine society if everyone took a little personal responsibility to better themselves everyday. Basically, it boils down to you: what can you do to make society a better place? I know you tacitly understand that, but I don't want people to get into the useless cycle of complaining to eachother and ******* themselves off and not doing anything to remedy the situation. And who wants the soapbox next?
This doesn't need a lot of discussion really. The EPA and the government are grossly corrupt and your choice is to live with it or try to beat them at their own game - the guy with the most money who can pay off the most officials, wins. You can also blackmail them or try to make them look bad in the public eye. Same difference. The problem is too many people are easily swayed by money and power, and as long as that's a problem, your government will be corrupt and easily influenced to regulate the little guy to death. If they're not making a buck on the side to regulate you, they're doing it to excercise their power and make themself feel important. I see that all the time - in Syracuse they recently proposed removing a section of I-81 who's bridges are due for replacement, that sees 90,000 cars a day - because the bridges it uses to p*** through the city "divide" it and are large and ugly. Apparently the cars are supposed to dissapear into thin air. The clown who proposed it is just getting himself some publicity for being on the city council. Maybe eventually they'll run out of little guys to regulate, when all the jobs in this country pay minimum wage and none of us can afford to do anything except the basics to survive - including the wealthy, who will be so few in number and taxed so high they really don't live any better than anyone else. That's why I keep buying all these cars now. In 10 or 15 years the junkyard will be obsolete and it will be impossible to find large collections of cars much more that 10 years old. So what if I don't finish anything now - at least when the time comes I'll have plenty to keep me busy and I'll be one of the last guys you can come to and buy cars from. But now that the weather is nice, I want to put some brakes on my '50 Chevy and drive it a little, and not think about this -
I agree wholeheartedly. I hate seeing a post that winds everyone up and doesn't do anything. Have a positive effect on what you can and speak up to those who can effect a greater change. But the unsaid detail is that you have to remain informed and what those political or corporate changes mean to you and me. Said my peace. Did I say I love farting around in the garage?
All I can say is how lucky you guys in the USA are: over here in the UK we're run by liberal-minded do-gooders in the European Union parliament, which seems to think everyone should have rights, but doesn't expecvt people to ***ume their responsibilities at the same time. Part of the EU's **** decisions involves old cars, and modified ones in particular - seems the Brussels pinkos don't like 'our' kind of cars at all. but then again, the EU is adamant it will wipe out anything remotely individual - from each member country's parliaments to how straight our ****** bananas should be....
This is exactly the reason why this thread is a good idea, provided it doesn't get out of hand...to make things public and reach a wider audience...maybe someone will read through all of this and help do something about it, or realize that they COULD run for office and do so...I didn't start this to be a ******* match, and I won't let it get to that point, there are a lot of people with opinions and ideas on how to bring about change and I like the thought of those opinions and ideas being expressed in a place like this for us all to get some insight on what's going on and what we can do to help change things for the future...thanks for your posts, and keep them coming as long as we can...
Well said - if you aren't careful you'll end up like Europe, which is throwing away all its heavy industries...
So, uh, what of the fact that Honda, Toyota and others are opening plants here? That, to me, points out that there are reasons for industry to stay in the US. Those companies still value and promote quality and loyalty in ways that have left US corporate culture. The conventional business models taught to the folks running US businesses in many different channels just don't work anymore. The corporate deba*****t of labor is the reason that employee loyalty is non-existent. Most people do not like major life changes, and would likely be more loyal to their employers if there was some recipricol loyalty. In this conversation, recognize that I would cl***ify the UAW as a business, just like GM. Two poorly managed organizations struggling to come to terms with a changed reality and with each other. Anyway, we should all be in the garage...
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