Technical Ford 9" is one easier to keep from leaking?

Stumbled on two rear ends last night one has the sealed bearings w/ the inner housing seal in the axle tube. 74 f100

Another one is 85 f150 w/ 31 splines out of a junk yard. So I'll need to go through everything. However this one has the taper roller bearing with seal being between the backing plate and bearing.

I'm not sure, having never dealt with a ford 9, is the tapers are just harder to seal up or user error. Could it possibly be as easy as a light coat of rtv on the OD of the seal before setting the axle in the housing?


Edit the 74 axle is a no go. 28 splines axles would be on borrow time with 700 ft lbs or tq

Thoughts on sealing up the taper bearing


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I doubt you need the rtv. I don't remember them leaking or being known for leaking. In all the years I worked doing brakes I don't remember a Ford 1/2 ton rear axle seal leaking unless the bearing was bad.

 

I have never had a 9inch leak. I did have the tapered bearings need replacing. The standard replacement was a Sealed roller bearing. Told at the time that the tapered were a problem. Never had any more difficulty with that rear end. Went over 100,000 miles with it.

 

Taper bearing being a problem?

The sealed bearing setup with inner axle seat seems to be a easier design (from a service side). I think one can go from a taper to a seal setup but not a seal to taper because the axle is a different diameter and won't seal up with the seal.


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The ID of the two bearings are different. The 514003 bearing/51098 seal ball bearing setup is on 1.5 ID.
The A20 bearing/3195 seal taper has a smidgen larger ID.
In both cases, as long as the installation procedure and housing conditions are correct, either are good to go.

 

Tire size, vehicle weight, traction, torque, and loud pedal application is what breaks axles.

 

Yes. This was in '78 and i was installing a 9 inch that came from a wrecked F150 in my pickup . I replaced the axle bearings and the replacement bearings were made for that application. At the time i was told that the tapered bearings were a problem and that was why the replacements were conventional.

 

I got the rear end. I forgot my darn straight edge to check it for any bent axle tubes. Looks good eyeing it up.

Time to brake out the simple green and clean it up.


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Had a '71 f100. That leaked at the axle seals. Because the seals wore a groove into the axle themselves. They make a offset axle seal that rides on a different spot on the sealing surface.

 

Got her home and tore in to her. Brakes were dirty, one axle seal showed signs of leaking. The axles I don't have ever been out. The curd from the brakes "glued" the back plates and seal to one another. The splines looked great (31 splines), races and bearings look great. Diff looks great to. Just need to verify the housing isn't bent. Don't have a jig but may know someone who has.

 

Yours is on the taper bearing setup in which the seal rides on a shoulder at the inside of the axle shaft flange. Inspect the shoulder for a wear groove. Also put your axles between centers on a lathe to check them for twist and straight.
If it was an older ball bearing type axle (car bearing or larger truck bearing), if the axle had a wear groove or a torch notch at the seal area inside the bearing retainer, a person can take the 1.375 or 1.500 ID wear sleeve and install at the damaged area. The parts catalog doesn't say you can, but you can buy the part by dimension and modify the installer cup to fit over an axle. It's best to put some weatherstripping adhesive or another product that will harden to prevent the wear sleeve from collapsing into the groove.
In the case of the taper axle, I would have to do some catalog digging to see if it's possible to perform the same farmboy solution for it's type of seal. If the parts are the right dimension, it should be possible if needed.
Look at a few 1979 age Ford trucks and how wide the rearends are. Use that for reference for whatever your intentions are. My little notebook says it should be close to 65" wheel face to wheel face.
Your gear ratio is 3.50.

 

A note for assembly on a 9 incher, is to use hardware store 3/8" ID copper washers on the "chunk" mounting studs to prevent leaks around them.
If you're performing a ratio change, also apply a nice dose of sealer inside the splines of the pion yoke before putting the nut on to prevent oil creep and leakage around the pinion nut.

 

Thanks Patrick. Yup this one is 65.25 flange to flange.

The 3rd member is leaking at the pinion seal and I think at the pinion retainer (if there is a seal). I still need to find the factory specs and check those on the 3rd member. It's very clean and kinda debating tearing in to it.


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Is the 4.375" offset of the pinion going to work for your application ?

 

If you change the pinion seal, ( which I would highly recommend ), make two small corresponding punch marks on the front of the pinion and the nut. Measure the amount of pinion shaft protruding out of the nut, with a dial caliper, before removing the nut. After replacing the seal, re-install the nut, and tighten it until the marks line up. The reason for all of this, there is a crush seal between the pinion yolk and the bearing to maintain pre-load. This will insure that will not change.

 

Retainer to carrier housing is by o-ring and shims to adjust pinion depth.
For the pinion seal leak, it could be for a couple of reasons. If there is bearing slack, it means a rebuild including a gearset. If it's trash that got in there and caused a groove on the yoke, a wear sleeve is available and the seal is a National 7044NA.
I ain't never spent any time in the driveline, gear, or parts bidness...........

 

Marty nailed one way to properly reset bearing preload.

 

One more tech tip.....Don't touch your fishing gear while working on this stuff...Damn fish......

 

Yes sir. It's all custom frame. Center the rear end to the frame and run with it.

I appreciate the help guys, really. I was going to mark with some marker the nut to the pinion retainer but center punch mark would make things easier.

The rear end came out of a 85 Ford F-150

 

I need to figure out how to weld the tabs for the 4 link with out warping the housing as little as possible.

 

Here is how you handle the weld warp problem. Who knows, I could be somewhat bent right now.
Weld your brackets on. Reassemble the entire housing with a carrier, good wheel bearings.
Have a pair of round tires of the same size on match size wheels, hopefully passenger car type tread, worn is fine. Prop the housing on jackstands or blocks so you can spin the tire/axle to put a paint line on the tire and scribe is while the paint is drying.
Then, with a buddy, measure from side to side, scribe mark to scribe mark, so see if the axle warped. If you're sharp enough to take a set of chains and a jack to straighten if needed, have at it. If not, find the oldest front end alignment shop in your area and ask them if they camber big truck axles and straighten housings. Or your local dirt car buddy may have the same capability because they deal with this from track meetings or building a new car.
You may find it welds together without a problem. I have had that on a Dana 60 I narrowed for a dirt car, and the 59 9" housing under my hotrod. Thor is somewhat forgiving to folks that ply in his trade, sometimes.

 

Thanks Patrick!

So question that popped up is the bearing I have no are different than the "set 20" so my question is would the set 20's be better (from a sealing stand point) than the current setup I have? Set 20s look like a seal bearing but are tapered.

 

With 700 ft.lbs. of torque I would be considering to at least a better carrier. Those are pretty thin around the pinion support. Get a Daytona style pinion support and throw the crush sleeve in the trash and get a solid spacer and shims to set it up.
9 inch Fords stock are not as strong as people think. They need some aftermarket help with that much torque if you have sticky tires. They also flex and try to shove the pinion out through the back of the housing. That's why you see a support on the back of the housing on high horsepower cars.
There should be someone in your area that can set your diff up correctly or there are plenty of how to's on the net that will go step by step.

 

;./

I would like to find a local shop that has a jig who could weld a brace at the back. 700ft lbs is the max and I'll run street tires (not a drag radial) but still the point remains. I've helped do a 8.8 before and the 9" seems to be a hell of a lot easier. Just basic tools and a gear puller/press is all you need. Have a dial indicator and mag base from my machine shop days. I think Strange engineering seals the pinion support by it self vs their whole new housing.

What about the axle bearing Set 20's (as people refer to them as) vs the taper bearings I have now. Both are taper just different kinds. Is one better than the other?

 

A-20 National or Set 20 Timken is the taper setup using the 3195 National seal on the outer shoulder.
Make sure the shoulder on the axle that the seal rides on isn't nicked of worn. Make sure the axle housing isn't sloppy to the bearing OD.
The bearing preload is performed by tightening the axle retainer when everything is installed.
As I said earlier, the condition of all the components together is what makes this function correctly.
As southcross2631 says, if you're hard enough on a stock 9", it will scatter. A Daytona pinion support is a wise investment. I've seen a few stockers have their guts blown out from a launch with sticky tires.

 

Thanks Patrick,
but the set20's and the taper bearings I have different? In the pictures I pulled up of the set 20's do not have race that you install in to the axle housing (like a pinion bearing race for example) vs mine are taper rolling bearings with race that are installed in to the axle housing.

Do you guys prefer one rebuilding kit from the other? Rather go with a solid sleeve vs a crush for simplistic.

 

Ah found a picture.
My axle on the left with taper bearing and a set 20 on the right. So are these interchangeable?

Mine



Set20

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/str-n1914

This pinion support will be good enough?

 

When you press the new bearing assembly onto the axle shaft you. The bearing and race install as one unit.
1. Slip the retainer over the axle.
2. By hand, press the new seal over the outside of the wheel bearing.
3. Drop the new bearing assembly over the axle, seal side first.
4. Press on bearing.
5. Press the bearing retainer ring on.
The easiest way to remove the old bearing race from the housing on the bearing that separated, is to take your wire welder and run a nice bead inside the old race. This will shrink the race and make it easy to slip it out.
I will look at the Daytona support at the house, can't at work.

 

Patrick, So you are saying in the picture above they are both set20 just one had the race come out with the bearing while the other bearing's race was left in the housing?