Any recommendations for Ford engine builders in Southern California? I'm thinking my 53 F100 really needs a 408. I've visited with Troy at Ford Performance Solutions in Orange. He seems to have a great reputation, but all the reputation is very dated. I don't see any that is current. Also, their shop is very junked up with stuff all over the place. What say you? Do you have a good or bad current experience that you would like to share?
What is a Ford 408??? Is that some sort of new fangled 351W stroker??? Just messing with you. A FE is a bit more traditional (and come in 406 and 410 sizes from the factory) and is a fairly easy swap into a '53. A 351W derivative is an easy swap too, but hey this is the HAMB..... I have never set foot inside of an engine shop that wasn't all junked up and full of stuff. Is there such a thing? Maybe Jon Kaase's or Barry Rabotnick's???
If this is for a street driven hot rod, I would consider something in a big block instead. The 408 is a 351 W bored and stroked to the very limit of what you can get wiothout special high deck, thick cyl. wall, aftermarket blocks. Wicked as all hell for drag racing, but IMO too radical for the street. There acres of room under that F100 hood for a BBF. The FE series engines are getting to be hard to find stuff for and expensive when you do find it. But at some sacrifice in "traditional" the 429 & 460 engines can be bad ass too.
I built one of the smaller 396 cubic inch stroker's some years back with a hydraulic roller...it was a nice strong runner and street friendly.
Is the bore smaller, or the stroke shorter in 396 vs 408? Along with thin walls on cyl. pistons are very short to clear crank counterweights on the ones I have seen, leading to the pistons rocking in the bore, rounding ring edges and wearing the very short skirts.
The 396 is a stroker crank, stock 351W length rods, and stock compression height 302 pistons. Actually probably the best choice, but not as popular for some reason (bragging rights?). The 408 is yet more stroke, longer rods, and the same bore. As to how 'radical' it is, it's got as good or better rod ratio/compression height numbers as a 383 Chevy and god knows there's a zillion of those out there.... When you go over 408" is when you need the special blocks.
I remember it was .030 bore can't for the life of me remember the stroke. I went .030 over because that was the max recommended. I think it was a shorter stroke that the 408.
I'm pretty much a Blue Oval kind of guy. I like Big surprises in Small packages. I also have had many many Motors built for customers as well as built lots of my own. I like the F E motors being I'm an Old Silver back. I try to stay informed as to what's out there and I have to say I'm impressed with the S.V.O. series of motors as well as the Roush motors. That said why are you trying to re invent and pay a ton for a motor you can have delivered to your door fresh off the Dyno and with a guaranty? If you don't have a working relationship with a Motor builder, your headed for a real learning curve. The Wizzard
I've considered an FE or BBF, but weight factor has led me to a 9.50 deck Windsor. Also considering a tri-power 312 Y-block which is available. My inclination is the Y-block at the moment. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
There's not much weight difference between a Y-block and a 429/460. Go with aluminum intake, heads, and water pump on one and now it weighs less.... One big advantage to a SBF is much wider choices in transmissions without needing expensive adaptors.
Steve please note that I also said the special blocks are required for engines in excess of 408, that it was limit for stock block. As to piston compression height, I'm referring to total length at skirt, which is a factor in piston stability in the bore, and consequently longevity.
The car in my avatar had a scat stroker 408 Windsor in it before the hemi with the intake spacers and a 302 tunnel ram on it.bug catcher on about 30% nitro. High sevens at 175 mph. And may I say it was bulletproof. Good enough to win A/fuel at Cordova in 2007. Bring on your FE. LOL. Lippy
I'm comparing cubic inches to cubic inches and HP and torque @ a engine that would barely have to turn 5000 RPM. A 460 Stroked up to the Mid 500's will easily produce 600 HP and 600 Ft. Lbs. of Torque and this is Mild. A 351w stroked to the Max would barely get to this in a Drivable Vehicle. That was Point, Didn't mean for this to turn into a Pissing Match. By The way Both build's would come in @ 4 to 5 Grand. I love the Windsor but it does have limitations when you Max the little motor out. One Mishap and she's probably toasted.
429-460 performer cam/manifold/650cfm carb/pertronix dist./headers and a c6 2500 stall,3:50 gear ...nice and easy lots of street performance and will live for ever
The hyperbole needs to be turned down a bit, I think. 408W isn't even slightly "radical" and FE parts are readily available, and every time I look they get more affordable. Having said that, a 460 would be the "easy button" for cheap low end power. For the same power, (475/525) you'd spend $7-8k on an FE, $6k on a 408W and $5k on a 429/460. I have done build lists for all three, using least expensive acceptable parts, as of 2 months ago. My personal choice if authenticity weren't in play would be the 408W. It is rapidly becoming the standard for affordable, lightweight power in Ford engines. If weight isn't an issue, get a 429/460. The worst part about those is the temptation to blow $12k once you get started on the build to make insane power. Which they will do. And if you want to stroke your engine, go with Scat cranks. For whatever reason, Eagle's stroker cranks in the Fords don't hold up as well.
No matter how much I do the math, I cannot beat Blueprint's 408, for cost. And Engine Master's hasn't been able to break one, yet.
Blueprint has an excellent track record. Just under 7K includes Ign, and fuel injection with a Warranty and a Dyno sheet on each motor. You will not find a one off shop that can compete in both time to build and back ground. Most walk in motor shops will tell you up front they can't compete with the price but will try to convince you $$$$ is better spent doing business over there counter face to face. Good luck with that and your decision. The Wizzard
I just meant it's a tough little SOB. Little woman wouldn't ride in front of the engine anyway or I could drive it to sonic. Couldn't reach the red button to order though.
I'm Blue to the Bone, no insults meant, But for the Blueprint 408 vs. the 429/460 is the point I'm trying to make is being able start out with something you can build on a Foundation, you can push these up to the K's if you want. You can readily find another Block if you need. I don't box myself in with a build. Blueprint goes belly up Tomorrow lay your warranty next to the striking paper in the Toilet.
But not everyone needs the fry-the-tires-at-will power the 385 series delivers. A 408W will give reliable low 400s HP and good torque in a compact, lightweight, easy-to-package design that's still streetable. The 385 limits your trans choices to the gas-hog C6 or a manual unless you go to aftermarket adaptors or an expensive aftermarket OD. Not including the 100-plus lbs weight penalty over the SBF. And the 385 has never been known for it's fuel economy, which does matter to some of us. I'm also a 'bleeds Ford blue' guy, and the arrival of inexpensive big-inch 351W strokers (along with all the SBF aftermarket heads and stuff) finally gave us choice parity with the Chevy crowd. Best part is you can tell them 'it's a 302' and most can't tell... LOL.
Blueprint's 408 dyno numbers have been proven accurate repeatedly, by Engine Masters and other independent testers. I am no Blueprint shill, and I used to be guilty of talking down quality of any mass produced engine builders, but have decided to STFU since they've proved their claims to better engine guys than I will ever be.
Talked to my machine shop guy who is a Chevy guy. He says his favorite Ford is a 408 stroker. They are easy to build, make a ton of power with some good heads. No reliability issues.
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