Absent the way your state does things, do you know who gets to pay the medical expenses beyond the limits of your policy, once they are surpassed? You do. Are you up for that? This law is to protect YOU from being bankrupted, in the event that you cause an accident. If I only had to pay $170 per car, per year to guarantee this, I would be on it, like white on rice. I can make $170, before my first coffee break. If you don't like the way that the funds are managed, there is a process that occurs mostly every November, but cannot be discussed here, for changing that. The last time that I went to the hospital, for minor internal bleeding, I was there for 5:45. The total cost was $73,000. When I got off the ride before it came to a complete stop, out on some old big dry lake, it was $1,677,000 to put my foot back on.
It would appear that a great many people have no idea whatsoever how Applied Probability Ruin Theory actually works.
Where I am from, if you cancel your insurance, your registration is cancelled automatically, in 10-days. If you get caught driving without it, your car goes to car jail, until you get it, new registration, and pay your fines. Car jail can be thousands and thousands of dollars, depending on how long it takes you to get your act together. I am fine with this. I don't mind following the laws, purchasing insurance, and I know how actuarial sciences work.
One of the problems is that my additional insured umbrella policy from another company will not extend to cars covered by Hagerty. So, as gimpyshotrods mentioned, you could be hung out to dry in the event of massive medical bills.
Exactly. They can go after you for the difference. That's why we have a million dollars worth of liability and the rest of it, and an umbrella policy. Mandatory insurance minimums are a joke. But I don't think I like "no fault" either. And I don't like the idea of unlimited medical costs being pawned off on insurance cos, because they just pass those costs on to everybody else. Sometimes people have good intentions but they don't understand how things work, and consequently make things worse. Politicians are a good example of this. It's just everybody - politicians mostly - promising to help us, but in reality cost shifting, a shell game, down to us lowly serfs. The Rich don't pay - they self insure. The poor don't have any money. Guess who that leaves? Working stiffs. Same as it ever was. The $170 is extra on top of and beyond whatever exorbitant rates they are already paying for insurance on account of "no fault" insurance. No I'm not really up for that, people need to pay for their own shit. No tickee no washee.
Just a million dollars or of liability? That's it? I killed $1.67m, in one accident, by myself, no other vehicles involved. If you had caused that accident, you'd be in indentured servitude, to me, for the rest of your life. "And I don't like the idea of unlimited medical costs being pawned off on insurance cos, because they just pass those costs on to everybody else." That is the very definition of how insurance works. Now I understand why you are pissed off. risk sharing Also known as "risk distribution," risk sharing means that the premiums and losses of each member of a group of policyholders are allocated within the group based on a predetermined formula. Risk is considered to be shared if there is no policyholder-specific correlation between premiums paid into a captive, for example, and losses paid from the captive's reserve pool. I live in a no-fault state. I am insured to the hilt. Three classics, two dailies, a vintage motorcycle, two drivers, highly trained (me race, wife Israeli special forces). Total annual premiums: $2360. $170/car/year is a pittance.
I dunno what it is exactly. I'd have to look. An umbrella policy is sold in increments of a million dollars on top of your regular policy.. It is relatively very cheap. If you have assets like a home, it's something you should look into. In fact I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. Like the name implies, I have a million dollars coverage over and above my existing policy. It's an "umbrella" that kicks in if my regular insurance policy coverage were to be exhausted. It's designed to protect assets in exactly the way we've been talking about. You're leaving out the part that insurance is a mutual agreement. Once the government gets involved, and sez you over there have to buy this, and also tells the insurance co. you have to insure everyone, regardless, it goes sideways. Risk pooling goes out the window. Next, the "special" Michigan fund set aside, re-insurance, is apparently 1.6 Billion dollars in the red. They also have the highest insurance rates in the country. This isn't the insurance co. fault. You call it a pittance, but it looks to me like everybody is getting a shakedown for an additional $170 above and beyond their existing premiums - and they blew it on collateralized debt swaps or some BS like that, and it's just throwing money down a rathole. I'm not pissed off, I just hope none of those stupid fuckers move here and try to pull the same shit.
Insurance is a business. They have to have a sustainable business to stay in business. These companies know from experience that some people have a loss out of their control. They also know that there are people that are professional victims. It appears Grundy cancels on 2 incidents. Insurance is the same as a bet. You are betting that you will have an accident and the insurance company is betting you won't. They have to sell a lot of policies to cover 2 claims amounting to $32,600.
I know this has nothing to do with the topic H.A.M.B. friendly auto insurance . But here is a bit of info that will rock your world in thinking about insurance companies . I worked for Duke Energy for 35 years , I paid for LTD insurance for 30 of those 35 years . I had one claim , the last year of my career . I was off recovering from 2nd neck fusion surgery . Liberty Mutual , denied my LTD Claim , 37 days not working days before my retirement date . This put me on Non Compensated Leave of Absence ( AOL ) and terminated . Mine you it was 37 days before my retirement , this move cost me 200K out of my Retirement Fund . I was 100% disabled from US Government , but not from Liberty Mutual / Duke Energy . I was the only qualified licensed person to deal with hazardous materials , once gone the company has had numerous code violations costing way over my retirement loss. Really doesn’t make good business sense to me but , I say if Jesse James could have stolen as easy as an insurance company can , he would not be in the history books today . Just beware if you have any bodily injuries to file claim the insurance company will pay private investigators to follow you so they can force you to court and tie your claim up for years , just so they can offer you pennies on your dollar investment to settle . JUST BEWARE THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND it’s a business to make huge profits yearly . Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
We have ANPAC/Chrome. Had a major hail storm earlier this year. Ruined the roof on the house and 2 classic cars. Adjusters were at the house within 2 weeks and had checks within 3 weeks.No problems at all. The previous storm ,we had American Family. All I can say is F*** them. Thieving bastards. They even screwed over their own employees that had storm damage
People don't consider how expensive one collision can be. There are vehicles out there worth millions. If you happen to hit one and are at fault, you could be in a world of financial difficulty. Medical costs are extremely high. If you injure one or more people, medical bills can add up to a million dollars very quickly. Then there are the pain and suffering lawsuits.
Exactly, the "mandatory minimums" policy coverage for liability insurance in many states are very low. Do the classic car insurance providers handle the liability part of the coverage? That's one thing about umbrella policies, they only write those when all of your insurance is handled through them, homeowners + vehicles. Like I mentioned earlier the additional umbrella policy over and above everything else is pretty reasonable, it's $40 annually for a million dollars coverage. So, if I take out a bus full of Nuns with my ride and the bus in turn takes out the bridge, which then falls on top of the train carrying hazardous nuclear waste... Hey, it could happen!
State Farm is one of the worst ranked and most often sued by its own customers insurance companies there is. I had them for years my rates kept increasing a little at a time until finally, I started checking around and found I could pay HALF what they were charging me . I even gave them a chance to just even get close to the other quotes. They were not even interested in trying. BTW I have Grundy on my hotrods now after switching from Haggerty for cheaper premiums and better mileage restrictions.
Pennsylvania offers a "limited tort", cheaper but you can't really sue for "pain and suffering". I have always paid for "full tort". You cause me pain and suffering and I am going to own your cow.
Ok, at the risk of enduring the wrath of the masses I'll add a few things to the discussion from the insurance company perspective. Back in another lifetime I spent five years doing claims in another similar specialty line to classic cars - boat and yacht claims. Also have a family history with decades in high end liability. So in no particular order, some thoughts on things people like to bitch about . . . 1) Insurance is a business it is not a public service. Like any business it is based on providing goods or services for a fee. In this case you have a risk, and you want them to assume your risk for a fee, generally for one year. If they accept, you pay the premium, and they provide coverage for that year . . . you have received what you paid for. If you had no loss, they make money. If you have a loss, they write checks usually far exceeding the premium dollar received. Either way you received value for your dollar. 2) It is not a savings account. It is the assumption of risk, for a fee, for generally one year. At the end of the year if you each choose to renew it all starts over again. A good long term loss free customer will often receive some goodwill in the claims process, but it does not affect coverage - that is a contractual and legal matter. 3) Underwriting is all about statistics, and it takes in many factors. The vehicle. It's age. The age of the drivers. Their driving record. Geographic location. Storage (garage / driveway / stored away from home). Your credit score. Single or married. And on, and on, and on. And yes . . . even loss history. It is a statistical fact that someone who has a loss will have more. Many companies will give you one Mulligan, and on the second event begin to look closer. "A" rated companies can afford to choose their insureds - they try to predict and choose those least likely to cost them money. The riskier people get shuffled down the ladder to companies who specialize in high-risk, and charge accordingly. 4) Often a company choosing to non-renew - which is what it is, although people call it cancelled - has nothing to do with the policy holder. Because of risk profiles companies spread the portfolio over the country, and will often set a ceiling on what they will right in a state, or even a county. Sometimes they will even choose to exit an area completely. You didn't have a loss, but may be non-renewed solely by zip code. 5) Some companies have better claims operations than others, but a good half of the people who rant about what they received for a loss actually got exactly what the policy specified . . . . they just never read the policy. If you shop solely on price, you are not being smart - determine the coverage you need and shop for the best price of EQUAL COVERAGE. And before you sign, look up the companies "Best Rating" - going less than A, A+, or A++ is asking for trouble. 6) Claims handling is all about the policy, the law, the Fair Claims Practices Act, and the law applicable to the individual state's adjusters' license. As much as people want to rant that the adjuster "doesn't want to pay" or the company "won't pay", or the best one "the adjuster gets a bonus if he screws me" . . . they adjuster is constrained tightly by the law. They FCPA says I have a duty to find any and all coverage available. And frankly, to an adjuster who may have 200 losses assigned, he is just not invested enough to take the time to screw you. Investigate the claim, pay the claim, close the claim. The best kind of claim is a closed claim. 7) The best way to save a buck is high deductibles. I carry a lot of coverage because I know first hand the devastation a catastrophic loss on someone, their family, and their future. But I carry the highest deductibles available. I'm looking to protect myself from the big ugly. I can pay the fender bender out of my pocket. 8) Never lie on an insurance application. Lots of guys with fast boats and fast cars want to fudge the facts. Especially if they are racing the car on occasion, or its a Poker Run boat. Don't do it. Tell the truth and pay the premium. If you have a catastrophic loss and the investigation shows that you lied on the application, you will learn more than you want to know about Material Misrepresentation. Which in the short version means that if you misrepresented a material fact that would have altered their decision to extend coverage. . . . . the courts can void the policy to inception. Which means they refund your paid premium, and its as if the policy never existed. Think of where you would be if you hit and killed someone, or did major property damage, and had zero insurance coverage. Don't do it. 9) Get more coverage than you think you can possibly ever need. Those things you know could never happen to you, CAN happen to you. Ok, soapbox closed.
Thanks to BOATMARK for a comprehensive (pun intended) definition of the relationship between an insurance company and policy holder.
These two bear repeating, over and over, until they stick. You can build another car. You cannot rebuild a person's life that you ruined. Insurance can help. And doubly especially this, which I have been trying to drill into the heads of some idiots here, who either claim that this is not the case, or "what are the odds that anything will...": "If you have a catastrophic loss and the investigation shows that you lied on the application, you will learn more than you want to know about Material Misrepresentation. Which in the short version means that if you misrepresented a material fact that would have altered their decision to extend coverage. . . . . the courts can void the policy to inception. Which means they refund your paid premium, and its as if the policy never existed. Think of where you would be if you hit and killed someone, or did major property damage, and had zero insurance coverage. Don't do it." This holds true to making sure that your registration and titling information are valid, current, and legal, and that all proper identifying marks (like your VIN/serial stamping) are legitimate, and match the paperwork. Insurance companies are in the business of producing the maximum possible return for their shareholders. If they can avoid a multi-million-dollar payout, because you have a falsified VIN, no VIN, or a mismatched VIN, you better believe that they will. I even started a very low cost service, to keep you kids from putting your hands in the wood chipper. If you can't afford me, you cannot afford a hot rod.
I'm with Hagerty, have my 36 Ford Coupe and two other off topic classic cars insured with them... I have filed my first claim with them a few months ago (hit and run $1100 damage) They were great to deal with.. Sent pictures and estimate .. Gave them the Police case number... I had a settlement check in three days... it was fixed... always great to deal with on the phone... dropped my 51 Ford Woodie and added the 36 on my policy... different value... got some money back to boot.
I have been with Hagerty for about 20 years and currently have 3 cars insured with them. I've had 2 claims in that time and they were extremely helpful and courteous in getting everything settled.
We have mandatory liability coverage in AL. You have to show proof of insurance to get your tags, and they check to make sure it's active, it goes on a State computer registry. You used to be able to get the tags and then drop the insurance, not any more, the State does random spot checks every month, if you're not covered, they send you a stern letter for you to report back to them if you have driven without coverage or not, or you can provide proof you were covered. They void your tags if found driving without coverage, and you have to pay full years price to reinstate them plus a fine. You can't even have a non runner in your yard with a current tag and no insurance, you have to turn the tag in to the court house if it's going to be out of service a while or keep insurance on it. We got hit a couple of years ago, was a few days late renewing a policy but within the grace period for the policy, State saw it was not covered, technically it was, wanted to give us a hard time until we sent them back proof that it was within the grace period, and a pic showing them it was not being driven, I had the heads off at the time. We lucked out without a fine. Another time, wife went to renew tags, forgot the insurance card for one of the vehicles, the crabby woman at the tag office sent it in that we didn't have coverage when in fact we did, it was on the State computer system, she just didn't want to look it up. State sent out a letter, we had to send back proof it was covered, actually got a nice letter back stating policy had been changed and tag office folks were now required to check the computer, should have been that way the whole time! It's not a bad law, it keeps some of the riff raff from driving around uninsured.
You don't necessarily have to buy insurance, but you have to prove financial responsibility. Most people don't do this, because they don't have 50 large laying around with nothing better to do. The problem is even with all the hoop jumping and extra costs of these laws, the same bums still drive around without it. They don't care. But they'll crawl up your ass with a microscope, because you do, and they know where you live. ----- Motor Vehicles and Traffic – Alabama Summary: Money or securities may serve as proof of bond. Citation: Ala. Code § 32-7-27 Section Name: Motor Vehicle Safety-Responsibility Act; Money or securities as proof. Law: (a) Proof of financial responsibility may be evidenced by the certificate of the State Treasurer that the person named in the certificate has deposited with him or her $50,000 in cash, or securities that may legally be purchased by savings banks or for trust funds of a market value of $50,000. The State Treasurer shall not accept the deposit and issue a certificate pursuant to this section and the director shall not accept the certificate unless accompanied by evidence that there are no unsatisfied judgments of any character against the depositor in the county where the depositor resides. (b) The deposit shall be held by the State Treasurer to satisfy, in accordance with the provisions of this chapter, any execution on a judgment issued against the person making the deposit, for damages, including damages for care and loss of services, because of bodily injury to or death of any person, or for damages because of injury to or destruction of property, including the loss of use of property resulting from the ownership, maintenance, use, or operation of a motor vehicle after the deposit was made. Money or securities so deposited shall not be subject to attachment or execution unless the attachment or execution shall arise out of an action for damages as provided in this subsection.
A little off topic of classic car insurance but I hear State Farm mentioned a lot in this thread. When I was much younger I was a roofer and was down in Florida working after hurricane Andrew [what a shit show that was]. It was common practice to spray paint the insurance companies name on the front of damaged homes. Two,three months later ALL the houses with State Farm painted on them where still not even being touched. That left a life long impression on me. Company culture is often lasting.
I’ve had State Farm for over 45 years. All my claims were settled quickly and professionally. I don’t think I ever waited more than a week before the settlement check showed up in the mailbox. Plus, all it takes is a two minute phone call to suspend coverage for the winter and reinstate it when the grass changes from white to green again in the spring. I’ve looked at cut rate companies in the past, but never found any significant cost savings over SF.
I've been with Grundy for many years with no problems. But no claims. All insurance companys are the same. They will take your money but the minute they have to pay out, they want to cancel you or raise your rates. I believe one of the posters had it right saying it is "legalized Extortion".
I've had State Farm for everything for 43 years. Never and issue. Lost 2 OT cars to totals by uninsured drivers within 4 years of each other. No issue. Several hit and runs, no issues. Had over $65,000 in damage from a huge hail storm a few years ago. House, trucks, trailer all badly damaged. They busted their butts to make sure we were taken care of. They were the ONLY company to rent a local building, bring in several outside staff to help and bring cars inside to do estimates and meet with homeowners on our schedule. I've used them for my old vehicles, new vehicles, motorcycles and home. Plan to keep using them, they have treated me very good. SPark
I had Grundy but this year money got tight so I let the policy expire and never even got the coupe out . After about 8 weeks I received notice that the policy no longer covered the car and the policy had been cancelled but I owed them about $140 for coverage for 2 months of insurance , when I called them they claimed that they have to cover the car after the policy expires for 60 days and that I owed them the money , but when I asked why they sent me a cancellation notice I got no answer . I told them to stuff it and never paid them
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