Picked up a really nice 51 Coronet Gyromatic w/ 230 Flathead. I’m 3rd owner, 10K original miles. Looking to put in a Gen 1 hemi and a vintage BW T-85 3 speed column shift.... more or less trying to make it a 50s correct Hot Rod. (Yes... doing up the Flathead is still in consideration ). Question is, will I have to replace the whole column or will the column for the Gyromatic be able to link right up? I’m thinking no as the column for the Gyromatic has R, 1(H&L) & 2(H&L)... and nothing for a 3rd gear. Yup... I’m THAT guy... so my apologies if someone has to explain or revisit AGAIN. Thanks for any help and yes it’s on the P15-D24 forum as well. Tips on 50s correctness are welcomed too! Again, thanks & happy upcoming New Year! Hoop
I looked for years trying to find an early hemi (short bell) to '49-'64 Ford (T85 is the same) transmission adapter. I finally got one a year ago and paid dearly. If you don't have one already, that's the first thing you should worry about.
Oh yeah, the proper stick flywheel was a tough find as well. The last one I put together used some readily available Dodge truck clutch parts, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Regarding the column question, you will likely need to swap the column assembly for one that used the more conventional two shift arm style. The MOPAR trannies thru’56 are “selector” type. The transmissions have one arm that that shifts all four positions, but which pair is determined by a second arm. That selector arm is moved when the shift lever is pulled toward the steering wheel in neutral, similar to other shifters, but yet doesn’t have a separate to move up and down. That selector thingy was also used by Pontiac Olds and Buick thru the late ‘50s or so. Chevrolet and all column shift Ford products used a column with the correct two arms, one for 1st & Rev, the other for 2nd & 3rd, that linked to arms on the trans that worked in the same manner. Ray
As Ray notes, you'll likely be needing a different column. Bonus points for the EarlyHemi. Care to divulge the plans? .
Just throwing this out there...I had an aluminum flywheel that was 146 teeth and when I looked it up in my old Bell Auto Parts catalog, it showed that 1937-56 Mopar was all the same..didnt seem to be a distinction of 6 or 8 cylinders..might be wrong...but it's what the catalog says..so if true, should broaden the field substantially when looking for a flywheel..
Plans are to keep pristine body and interior intact. Pull the 230 and transmission, clean them up, and store them. slightly better than mild warm up of the hemi, and the T-85 column shift so as some unknowing individual still may think i'll have that gyromatic clunking around. I took the T-85 idea from a guy on here who said his buddy had one back in the 60s and it was tied to a big power hemi... and still smoked four speeds. Speaking of four speeds... Some may say put a four speed in there... but I want don't want to be cutting up any of the body, floor pans, etc. Which brings up crossmember work... if my "planned" swap requires a ton of work there... my plans may alter all together. Right now... I'm just excited about what's on the horizon for the upcoming summer and beyond.
Additional info is always helpful. As Tubman noted, a bellhousing could be a challenge so why not look at the Mopar 3-speeds? 1961–1971 Chrysler A745 — 3-speed manual for V8 1970–1981 Chrysler A230 — 3-speed manual, all-synchromesh 1975–1978 Chrysler A390 — 3-speed manual, all-synchromesh The best part is that you only need a 'normal' adapter for an LA bellhousing. Something to consider. .
Your are very welcome.....and here are more thoughts....not that you asked You did not specify which of the first gen hemi engines you had in mind. The Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler are all very similar but different in dimensions, the Dodge being the most compact. The displacement ranges from 241 thru 325 for Dodge, 276 thru 345 for DeSoto and 331 thru 392 for Chrysler. The early Chrysler 331 has as significant downside in that it has an extended block appendage that serves as part of the bellhousing. This design was changed by early ‘54 models and greatly improves the adaptability of modern transmissions. The Dodge and DeSoto engine blocks were the better design from the start. However, since the vast majority of these models had semi-Automatic trans the bellhousing were quite long to accommodate the fluid coupling and attached clutch assembly. There was a crossmember at the back of the b/housing that supported the rear of the engine and the trans hung out behind that without further support. When using an adapter to attach a more conventional trans, such as the T-85 or equivalent, the input shaft and b/housing is several inches shorter and the original crossmember position is not well suited for that change. Given the relative rarity of a b/housing adapter for the T-85/Ford trans, you might want to consider using a later MOPAR or GM manual trans or even an automatic, for which early MOPAR to later trans adapters are readily available. In most cases these trans will require a support near the rear of the trans and a new or additional crossmember will need to be fabricated. As it happens, many years ago I converted two older Dodges from semi-automatic to fully manual trans using stock parts and the original long b/housing. However, the transmission and related bits required to do that were never plentiful and are now quite rare. Were I to do that today, I would use a commercially available adapter and later model trans as I suggested above. If I can be of any further assistance, just post a question or PM me and I will try to help. Ray
Well, looks like Gary replied while I was composing my lengthy response.....but not surprised to see he and I are on the same page. Ray
You two are the best. haha. You mentioned several (of the Dodge and Desoto) had semi-automatic trans... so does that mean the gyromatic could possibly stay
So I found a guy selling a 270 super red ram hemi with a 3 speed manual attached. The block number is a D553, which works... but he's unsure of the 3spd manual. Tail shaft has a number on it of 92653 and one of the sides shows (on the bolt on cover) a number of 93471 and a number 52158. Any idea what that tranny might be? Swamped at work and can't wear out google right now lol
Just to be clear for others who may be watching this thread. "GyroMatic" and "Fuild Drive" are two separate systems. Gyromatic is a semiautomatic transmission, while Fluid Drive is just a fluid coupling with a regular three speed transmission. I used to think they were the same thing; they're not. Like Ray, I converted a '53 Dodge engine with Gyromatic to s regular straight stick for a "T" bucket I built. I also had a hard time finding a transmission, and this was in 1965. That sucker had the longest input shaft I have ever seen!
If it's a 270, it's a 1955 engine. The Fluid Drives and Semi-automatics were gone by then. It's almost got to be a standard three speed. The only other thing it might be is a 3 speed with overdrive, but I don't know if that was even available in 1955. You should be able to tell by just looking it over and checking for any extra cables, solenoids, along with electrical wires and switches. (EDIT : Yep, Overdrive was available in '55. In my opinion, that's a big advantage).
Right.... definitely a 55 engine... and older gentleman said "oh yeah... it's definitely a manual 3 speed and none of that fluid drive stuff" haha. Also has trans brake and what he calls "a long tail shaft to it" it that helps? I wish I could just look at the damn thing in person. I'm going to try and get his son to send pics.
Brief answer to first question is ‘yes’ sort of. If you would be okay with the Gyromatic your options for first gen hemis are pretty broad. Since Chrysler, DeSoto and Dodge all used Gyros through ‘53, any of those engines along with their bellhousing and fluid coupling should work with your transmission and use the same rear crossmember support as is. You could also use the ‘55 Dodge D55-3 engine, but would need to use a ‘53/‘54 Dodge or DeSoto V8 bell housing. In that instance, all the stock linkages and driveshaft etc. would remain as is. Only potential problems....and may very well be okay, just not certain, is the clearance of the left cylinder head/valve cover interfering with the column shift linkage and possibly the starter motor with the steering box. I think there is a very good chance both would be okay, being a Dodge chassis of that era. A Plymouth, on the other hand, has such interference. OR, you could use the ‘55 Dodge D55-3 Engine and supplied 3 speed trans. The column shift mechanism will work with the ‘55 trans as it is the ‘selector type’ previously discussed. However, the bellhousing on the ‘55 is several inches shorter than earlier models and you would need to move the crossmember forward, shorten the shift linkage rods and lengthen the driveshaft accordingly. As it happens, in 1962 I swapped a D55-3 hemi and manual trans into my buddy’s ‘53 Plymouth convertible, a car I later bought from him. That was done after I had swapped a ‘51 Chrysler hemi into MY ‘53 Plymouth, a very unsatisfactory swap for several reasons at the time. Because of the issues, I pulled the hemi and put the original six back in place. But having learned a great deal about the problems, and the smaller dimensions of the Dodge V8, I was better prepared and that swap was very satisfactory. edit: Just saw a pic of your Dodge Coupe on another thread......Nice! and another sort of semi-coincidence. Between the ill-fated Chrysler hemi into the Plymouth ragtop and the Dodge V8 swap into the other one, I had a '49 Dodge coupe that I bought with no engine. Really nice body/chassis (only 12 or 13 yrs old at the time) and used the six from my raggity bodied Plymouth to make the Dodge mobile again. That was my first experience in converting from Fluid Drive to fully manual trans and I discovered the combination of stock parts that made it work. Ray
Thanks Ray! The car actually fell into my lap. An older gentleman who is not net savvy had his son list it for him on Craigslist... but when the son listed it... his grammar was all jacked up so, I'm assuming, everyone ignored it as possible spam and nobody looked at it or even called for months- plus it was listed as "all original, 10K miles, 2nd owner, garage kept entire life, etc etc." and for only $10K... which sounded too good to be true. So... the son then put it on a crap-load of facebook marketplaces and it happened to pop up on my brother's facebook feed with a link to the Craigslist ad. So my brother took a screen grab from his phone (I don't do facebook... only an avenue to get your butt in trouble haha) and text it to me, saying "hey... I think this isn't too far from you... why don't you give it a call and see if it's legit" (I was in Northern VA at the time and the car was in WV, about two hours away). So I did, I visited, and I bought. Funny because I wasn't out there looking AT ALL. I'm not too religious, but I believe in the Man upstairs and that everything happens for a reason. Gentleman... I was MEANT to have this car hahaha. Also... I'm prob gonna have to pass on that super red ram hemi and tranny, unfortunately... just can't get my trucking buddies down there to get it down in KY. I know... "why don't you go get it yourself?"... well... I'm trying to buy it under the old lady's radar... coz if she finds out i'm trying to buy an old hemi and trans while we're looking for a house to buy... she'll castrate me. haha. She'd definitely notice if I disappeared on a 1200 mile r/t journey w/o explaining. Now... I did see a 318 poly wide block kinda down the road an hour or so from where I'm at. HRM says good things about them... but its a little later than what I initially wanted...however... $200 bucks for it and the guy says "it's solid, complete, and it turns". Good parts market for 'em too... except for aluminum intakes and quality valve covers haha. I'll take a look I suppose... coz cost effective speed and cool factor are what hot roddin' is all about, right? I just wish where my head is now at 43... it where it shoulda been at 13... just like most of you cats on here.
The early A engine is good piece however, be cautious as to the model year. There were significant changes for 1962. If you want something 'cool', then keep an eye out for the Chrysler 'Spitfire'. This is a Hemi block assembly with a 'Poly' type head. Most folks have no clue what it is when they see it. Base engine for 55-58 Windsor and Saratoga lines. As for the A engine, the SS-X intake and valve covers are available but production runs might be sporadic. No, not inexpensive. .
Ok... I’m back. In lieu of a more expensive to build hemi... picked me up a complete 318 A poly with a 65 cast date, 2bbl carb. Another older gent had it just sitting in his barn and you could turn the crank by hand... So not seized & so for a C note it came home with me. Now... just gotta confirm a good tranny that’ll bolt up w/o too many headaches... column shift of course, to maintain the current look of my current Gyromatic set up. Will the aforementioned three speeds do the trick? Thoughts?? Thanks in advance!!
Well, congratulations...I think. However, the year model of the engine may complicate matters. So far as I know, the block pattern where the bell housing bolts on changed with '62 models. That means a '61 or earlier bell will not fit the later block. And, transmission to bell housing bolt patterns changed with '57 models. Bear with me here.....'56 and prior transmissions used the 'selector type' shift linkage I described in an earlier post. '57 and later models used the more conventional two lever shift arms on the transmission.. Your current column shift would work with the pre-'57 transmission shifter arrangement. But the early trans will not, to the best of my knowledge, bolt on 'as is' to a later bell housing. I 'may' be mistaken about that, but I don't think so. So, all that said, unless I am overlooking something here, if you want to stay with a manual trans that fits your new engine, it will be '57 or later (using a '62 up bell housing) and require a modification or replacement of your current column 'mast jacket' (aka steering column tube or housing) at the minimum, to retain a stock looking column shift. An automatic trans could more easily be connected to your existing column shift, though even that should entail some provision for a shift detent that ensures the lever stays in the correct position for safety's sake. A later column mast jacket could provide that. Ray
What the heck ever happened to this SS-X intake and valve covers run? It's like the program fell off the face of the earth haha. Old edelbrock and weiand stuff is going to be... let's say... next to impossible to find. Hopefully I can find something at spring Carlisle.
I bought one of those manifolds from "chryslerpower.com", so I just went there to see what was going on. The first thing I found out is that Roland Osborne, the guy behind the manifolds and valve covers, passed away last year. Also, there was not mention of them selling any "hard" equipment, just "T"-shirts and magazines from what I could see. You may want to contact them through the website to see what's going on. I think "73RR" on here knew Roland, so maybe he can add something.
Yeah.... hitting them up through the website was my first course of action a lil while back. No response. I did stumble across that about Roland... and, as with the rest of that kind of news, quite sad.
Yes, Roland passed away and left his wife with the task of dealing with the magazine and everything else. I have talked with her and she is still trying to come to terms with all that happened is such a short period of time. The intake and valve cover project is (was at the time of the call) not dead. In fact, she was planning a trip to CA to visit the folks at the foundry to try to get up to speed. For anyone thinking that they want an SS-X intake they should make it known.
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