History Auto racing 1894-1942

IT'S HARD TO ADMIT WE COULD HAVE BOTH MIS-JUDGED THAT GROUP
BUT WAS SURPRISED BY HOW PEOPLE JUST DIDN'T EITHER KNOW THEIR CARS OR IT'S LIMITS OR THEIR OWN... BOTH DRIVING AND CONSUMPTION OF BOOZE.
I STILL WAS THANKFUL THAT BRUCE, AS YOUR PASSANGER, STOODUP FOR ME AND MY EFFORTS WHEN THOSE OLD WOMEN STARTED PICKING MY BONES. EVEN THOUGHT MOST OF THEM NEVER SAW ANY OF IT TILL IT WAS WAY PAST OVER.

NOW I'M TOO BLIND TO DRIVE AT SPEED EVER AGAIN..... I DO MISS MY MERCER. IT DOES HAVE A GOOD HOME WITH A GUY THAT LOVES TO DRIVE. BUT HONEST I REALLY DON'T MISS MOST OF CALIFORNIA.

HOW IS ALEC DOING?

 

All that happened in my backyard; and I knew nothing about it! On a different note...I'm in discussions with a friend of mine who's the lead investor of a 10k acre ranch here in the Central Coast. We've been running timed competition on his paved runway for over a decade. I passed an idea of a event similar to the one in the UK where participants go up Lord March's driveway. He's excited about the idea; but at this point there is not enough paved roadway. He understands that there's a need; but getting there is another matter.

 

What's with all the bold monster print? Ease up please.. thank you

 

JIMMY

IF YOU'VE BEEN HERE ANY YOU'D KNOW I'M GOING F'N BLIND.... THIS IS THE ONLY WAY I CAN SEE WHAT I'VE WRITTEN HERE.....
MY VISION IS HONESTLY FAILING BUT NOT MY LOVE FOR THIS HOBBY WE HAVE HAD FOR ALL OUR LIFE.

AND NOW FOR THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW WHAT JOHN IS TALKING ABOUT HERE'S ME AT GOODWOOD ...JUST WANDERING AROUND IN MY OLD BMW.........

THIS IS LORD MARCH'S DRIVEWAY. YOU EVER GET AN INVITE PACK YOUR CAR ON A PLANE... IT IS JUST GOOD FUN

 

Jimmy, If you're a drinker of fine whisky, go get some cheap stuff...It'll make reading this bold type easier! (Just kidding)!

 

MANY MANY YEARS AGO I ASK ROB WALKER WHAT WAS THE BEST SCOTCH. HE EXPLAINED THAT CARDHU WAS THE BASE THEY MIXED INTO... SO I ONLY SIP THEIR 18 Y.O.
AS LONG AS YOU GUYS LET ME I'LL POST

 

Anyone who wouldn't let you post needs a good, swift kick, Jim.

 

I'LL READ 'EM!

 

Good grief, you were still in high school when I had already bombed out of college and got drafted!

 

Don it may be easier to come up with some witty old adage about age but maybe more appropriate is to appreciate forum discussions such as this thread (among others of course). Although there may be some occasional unkind responses, the end result may be trying to get “history” a little more correct.

In my mention of a 1903 Cadillac, I researched the formation and early cars of Cadillac and found the history as now adopted by GM to be somewhat questionable (trying to be as diplomatic as possible). Most of the early history was adopted from the writings of Wilfred Leland who was there not long after the formation. The problem is that he wrote his manuscript in the 1940s when he was in his 80s and I believe quite a bit was from memory. I would hate to read what I write in my 80s (if I get there) from memory. I went through the entire achive of materials that he used in his manuscript and I still shake my head. I wrote an article a few years ago in an attempt to set the record straight but not sure it will ever be used with any authority. We may be making more headway with early auto racing--I think, or maybe I hope.

We know that there are some questionable secondary sources of early auto racing. Let’s hope that before we are leaving too much drool on our own “manuscripts” that we hopefully clarify a few matters here and there.

 

I GET SOMETHING OUT OF JUST ABOUT ANYTHING POSTED ON THIS THREAD.

OF COURSE I BEGAN THESE LARGE BOLD TYPE POSTS BECAUSE OUR FRIEND "BLUTO" IS GOING BLIND.

JIMDILLON I REALLY ENJOYED YOUR POST ABOUT RIDING WITH "LAGONDA JOE". I RACE WITH JOE QUITE OFTEN. HE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST GUYS I MET WHEN I RETURNED TO RACING OVER A DECADE AGO. IT TOOK ME YEARS BUT I FINALLY DEVELOPED AN ENGINE FOR MY CAR THAT PUT JOE AND MOST OTHERS BEHIND MOST OF THE TIME. AT OUR LAST CORONADO RACE HE CAME BY MY PIT AREA AND JOYFULLY ASKED WHERE HE COULD FIND A CAR LIKE MINE. I FOUND ONE AND HE SAID SHE WOULDN'T LET HIM BUY IT UNLESS HE GOT RID OF ANOTHER.

IT'S ALL IN FUN. BUT WE'RE ALL GETTING OLDER AND IT'S NOT GOING TO LAST FOREVER. I'LL BE 79 IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS; BUT I'M NOT READY TO GIVE UP.

LET'S ALL "LIGHTEN UP" AND CONTINUE TO SHARE. PARDON THE ALL "CAPS" (THAT'S SHOUTING). BUT, AGAIN, I'M JUST ANOTHER "OLD FOOL"; and i went to far to change it!

JK

 

I guess I'm the baby here, as I'm only in my late 50's, but this thread has been wonderful. Big cheers to Kurtis for starting this discussion, and for all the regular contributors that have shared their knowledge & insights into the early roots of auto racing. There is a lot of enthusiasm here, and for that I am most grateful.

As some of you already know I have build a new website on the history of the Chevrolet brothers. It can be viewed at the following link:

https://www.chevroletbrothers.com/

My quest to dig up information on the Bow Tie Boys was quite an adventure. I had the opportunity to meet a lot of very nice people, and to make some new friends along the way. Chasing history can yield answers, but often leads to more questions than you began with. My website is not going to be static, but will be in a constant state of evolution. Will it ever be perfect, probably not, but it can always be improved upon.

 

How about you guys quit shouting and ease up on the bold print...

 

IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND BY NOW WE CANT EXPLAIN IT TO YOU. IT IS NOT REQUIRED READING SO IF IT HURTS YOUR FEELINGS YOU CAN JUST SKIP TO SOMETHING IN YOUR COMFORT ZONE.

 

THANK YOU GUYS FOR PUTTING UP WITH MY VISION PROBLEMS

I WAS THINKING TONIGHT ABOUT HOW ALL THIS WAS BEFORE THE WEB. HOW HARD IT WAS TO UNCOVER LOST OBJECTS.
MY FIRST JOBWAS AT AGE 10 FINDING CARS FR A COLLECTOR IN LA. GET ON MY BIKE AND RIDE ALL OVER. IN THE CRENSHAW DISTRICT THERE WAS JUST SO MUCH STUFF. I GUESS I JUST EVER QUIT LOOKING. AND FINDING.....
THERE IS NOW AN AUTOMOTIVE WRITTER THAT WANTS TO WRITE THIS***** DOWN. SO I'LL BE ABLE TO JUST TELL MY STORY.... AND WILL BE LUCKY IF I GET TO TELL IT BEFORE MY 80'S.
I FIGURE THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS WHO WILL PLAY ME IN THE MOVIE

AND JIMMY MY WIFE IS IN THE 2-CLUB AND FASTER THAN YOU .....

 

I NEVER NOTICED JUST HOW MUCH LOCKHART LOOKED LIKE RONALD REGAN.... THANK YOU

 

HELLO, BLUTO!​

AT THE FIRST MOMENT I WAS THINKING TOO THAT YOUNG RONALD REAGAN WAS IN*****PIT OF THAT HIGHLY AERODYNAMICAL RACER!

I DIDN'T NOTICE THE SECOND PHOTO WHERE DESIGNER/RACER HAD FATAL ACCIDENT!

WHAT WOULD BE A HISTORY IF YOUNG RONALD WAS IN THAT RACER? GOOD THAT RONALD PREFERED HORSES IN HIS WESTERN FILMS...

CIAO,
ZORAN
​

P.S.: IT IS NICE PRIVILEGE TO READ STORIES OF BLUTO AND HIS FRIENDS, AS WRITTEN BY REAL PERSONS THAT HAD AND/OR RACED MAGNIFICENT AUTOMOBILES, THAT MANY OF US COULD ONLY READ ABOUT AND SEE PHOTOS! SO, BIG AND BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS ARE OUR SMALL CONTRIBUTION AND SHOWING OF RESPECT TO HIM!

 

... MAYBE, SOME OF YOU HAPPY AND LUCKY BIG BOYS KNOW SOME OF THEE SHOWN AUTOMOBILES AND EVEN HAD NICE CNACE TO DRIVE THEM?
MAYBE OWNERS/DRIVERS ARE KNOWN TO YOU AND EVEN ARE YOUR FRIENDS?
MAYBE SOMEBODY OF YOU ARE ON FILM?

BOTH MERCER AND STUTZ WERE MY FAVOURITES BETWEEN AMERICAN CLASSIC SPORTS CARS, FROM MY EARLY YOUTH (COULD SEE JUST A COUPLE OF PHOTOS IN VARIOUS MAGAZINES).

MAYBE JUST WRONG PERSPECTIVE ON SCREEN, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT ONE OF THEM IS BIGGER AND HEAVIER? MERCER - IF IT IS THE RED ONE? I FORGOT NOW IN A MONTH MORE THAN I WAS LEARNING IN A YEAR!

ZORAN

 

...ANOTHER SHORT FILM WITH STUTZ, BUT FROM MOMENT 3:20 THERE IS SHOWN "BLACK HAWK" STUTZ, PROBABLY RE-CREATED!
ZORAN

 

Not only did the Gipper score touchdowns in South Bend, but he also spun wrenches in Gasoline Alley.

 

I NOT ONLY DROVE MY MERCER IT WAS PARKED NEXT TO MY BED.

 

Zoran,

The gray factory racer is the Mercer- Dr. Simeone has said that it is the last remaining Mercer to come out of the factory without fenders. If you ever get a chance to go to his museum, GO! It's right by the Philadelphia Airport, and houses an incredible collection of automobiles, from the turn of the century on up to recent time- many with a well-known/winning history!

 

BILL

DR FRED IS A VERY NICE GUY AND AN AVID/DEDICATED COLLECTOR
YOU SEE HIM SAY HELLO FOR ME PLEASE

THIS IS THE STUTZ I GOT TO REPLACE MY MERCER..... IT NEVER CAME CLOSE .... IT WAS 14 YEARS NEWER!

 

JIM, NICE STUTZ AND YOU ARE ONE OF THE FEW THAT CAN UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE IN DRIVING EXPERIENCE BETWEEN THE MERCER AND THE STUTZ. I THINK OF YOU WHEN I HEAR PEOPLE SAY HOW GREAT STUTZ CARS DROVE (AND I CHUCKLE). WE HAD A NEWER MERCER IN THE COLLECTION BUT SADLY WE DID NOT HAVE ONE FROM THE TEENS ALTHOUGH I HAVE BEEN A PASSENGER IN ONE. I HAVE DRIVEN A FEW STUTZ BOTH FROM THE TEENS AND THE 20S AND THE MERCER I BELIEVE IS A BETTER DRIVING EXPERIENCE. THE BLACK AND WHITE PICTURE OUT OF AN ARTICLE, WAS A 23 THAT BELONGED TO MY DAD -THAT IS HIM BEHIND THE WHEEL IN THE EARLY 50S AND MY GRANDFATHER ALONGSIDE. I DROVE THIS 23 A LOT AND ONE SUMMER IT WAS MY TRANSPORTATION TO WORK-NO FUN AS A DAILY DRIVER-A REAL CHORE WITH TWO WHEEL MECHANICAL BRAKES AND LONG SHIFTING RODS WITH A TRANSAXLE. REAL HEAVY STEERING. I WORKED AT MY COUSIN'S TRUCK GARAGE/BUSINESS AND THE GUYS TOLD THEY COULD HELP ME MAKE IT "BETTER"-THEY COULD NOT.

THE OTHER PIC IS ME ON MY WEDDING DAY TO MY FIRST WIFE. OF COURSE YOU KNOW IT IS THE MATE TO YOUR STUTZ BLACKHAWK AND COMPARED TO THE 23 IT DROVE LIKE A DREAM. I HAVE TOLD THE STORY BEFORE BUT MY WIFE WAS FURIOUS AS IN THE HOKEY WEDDING PHOTOS I HAD A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF GREASE UNDER MY FINGERNAILS FROM WORKING ON THE CAR THE DAY BEFORE THE WEDDING.

MY FAVORITES TO DRIVE IN THE COLLECTION WERE THE 1916 PACKARD TWIN SIX AND THE 1913 CHALMERS BIG SIX 54 HP I SEEM TO REMEMBER.

 

Hallo, Mac!​

Thank you for the clarification! When I was watching that film some time ago, I thought that grey car is Mercer, being something lighter, but last night I was confused a little... The too late evening was!
I would like to visit that Museum, but it is far away from me and my chances to visit America is practically and zero level.
--- ---
Hello, Bluto!
It is nice to have such masterpieces besides your bed - going to sleep watching it and waking with it saying you "good morning"! Black STUTZ is wonderful, but I would prefer older MERCER, or even older Stutz!

Nice to have internet friends that have such cars or had them in the past!

Ciao,
Zoran​

 

JIM

I FIRST SAW THIS CAR IN SINGAPORE. BELONGED TO A FELLOW AMERICAN MEMBER OF THE MSVCR. HE SPENT A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY MAKING IT RELIABLE AND FAST.... HIGH SPEED DIFF GEARS, WIDE RATIO GEARBOX, IT WAS 12 VOLT.... UUR2, BB HEAD, CORELLO CON RODS, JAGUAR PISTONS ..... YOU GET THE IDEA....
I ASKED A CLUB MEMBER "WHAT'S UP WITH THE BLACKHAWK?'' ONCE HIS WAS ... "IT'S FOR SALE AND NO ONE WILL BUY IT!!" I THEN ASKED HIM TO ASK THE PRICE WHEN HE GOT BACK TO SINGAPORE. GOT A FAX FROM HIM AFTER A TIME ..US$14,000!
WENT TO THE ROSTER FOUND THE NUMBER AND EVENTUALLY FOUND THE OWNER.... WELL, IT THEN TOOK THE BETTER PART OF AN HOUR TO CONVINCE THE OWNER I WAS FULLY PREPARED TO BUY IT.... AND A COUPLE MORE CALLS TO RE-AFIRM MY INTENSIONS AND FINALLY GET HIS BANKING INFO....
THE CAR CAME TO LONG BEACH ...IT HAD BEEN SITTING IN A WAREHOUSE IN SINGAPORE'S HUMIDITY SO LONG THAT THE OIL WAS GREEN-GRAY WITH WATER.... ALL FOAM..... OK DRAIN THE OIL DROP THE PAN THE ENGINE WAS NEW INSIDE.... SO I WASHED OUT EVERYTHING AND FILLED IT WITH OIL SPUN THE MOTOR AND THE OIL PRESSURE ROCKETED UP QUICKLY AND.... THERE WAS NO WATER MISSING FROM THE RAD BEFORE OR AFTER.... JUST CONDENSATION! OK I STARTED THE THING AAND LET THE TEMP COME UP TO NORMAL
DRAINED THE HOT OIL AND NOTHING ..NO WATER ANY MORE.... THEN IT TOOK ME ABOUT A YEAR OF CONSTANT WORK AND MONEY TO GET IT DE-BUGGED. I CAN HONESTLY SAY IT WAS A P.O.S. COMPARED TO MY OLD MERCER.

AND IT HAD A GREAT DEAL OF TIME AND MONEY SPENT ON IT BY MYSELF AND THE PREVIOUS OWNER... OK IT WAS A STRIKING CAR... TO DRIVE LIKE GATSPY DOWN THE ROAD WAS A STATEMENT..... BUT LIKE MY CORD 812 SPOORTSMAN IT WAS A VERY HEAVY HANDED THING. WHEN YOU DROVE THE MERCER IT WAS A JOY AND YOU GFOT OUT OFTHE CAR WITH A SMILE... THE STUTZ JUST WORE ON OUT.
I WAS AT THE TORRIE PINES CONCOURS WITH MY BMW COUPE. THE OLD GUY NEXT TO ME HAD A STUTZ WALKING BEAM RACE CAR... HE ASKED ME TO MOVE MY CAR BECAUSE HE HAD WN THE CLASSS AND THEY WERE SENDING A TOW TRUCK TO PULL THE CAR OVER THE RAMP..... WHEN I ASKED HIM WHAT WA WRONG HE EXPLAINED THAT HE COULD NEVER START IT WHEN IT WAS COLD. "MAY I TRY??" I ASKED
"CLOSE THE CHOKE AND PUMP THE FUEL WITH THE THROTTLE OPEN." AFTER THE CARB STARTED TO DRIP I PULLED THE CRANK THRU A COUPLE TIMES "NOW OPEN THGE CHOKE 1/2 WAY, CLOSE THE THROTTLE AND SET THE MAG AT ABOUT 1/2 ADVANCE WHEN I ASK PLEASE FLIP THE SWITCH" I GRABBED THE CRANK PASUSED TO SAY THE MAGIC WORDS UNDER MY BREATH "START YOU MUTHER F'R" YELLED "SWITCH" AT THE TOP OF MY VOICE AND IN ABOUT A 1/4 TURN THE OLD MAN CAME ALIVE LITTLE MORE THROTTLE PLEASE AND LESS CHOKE ....YOU CAN ADD A LITTLE SPARK..... I STOOT AND LISTENED TO THIS THING BARK! AFTER IT WARMED UP I YELLED "SWITCH OFF, PLEASE" IT GRUMBLED AND STOPPED. tHE DRIVER WAS AN OLD GUY BUT HE HAD A KIDS SMILE.... I WALKED UP TO HIM AND "YOU SAW WHAT I DID??" "IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE!!" THEN HE EXPLAINED TO ME THAT EVERY SHOW PEOPLE WOULD TRY AND STARTED A LIST OF NAMERS INCLUDIUNG THE UCLA FOOTBALL TEAM SEVERAL OLD FRIENDS...... I LOOK HIM HE'D OWNED THE CCAR FOR TENS OF YEARS .... I SMILED AND SAID "NOW YOU HAVE TO TELL YOUR FRIENDS A 'MERCER GUY' SHOWED YOU HOW TO START YOUR CAR!!!!"

 

LAST PART OF THE STORY

A BUDDY CALLS AND SAYS HE KNOWS A GUY THAT WANTS MY STUTZ AND WILL TRADE A MERCEDES 680S FOR IT.... I JUMPED!!

WELL LOT MORE TIME MONEY AND EFFORT THIS IS FINALLY TOGETHER



IT WAS A TRUCK! AND NOT MUCH BETTER THAN THE STUTZ.... PLUS THE GERMAN COMPRESSOR CLUB GUY HAD A FEW THINGS TO SAY ABOUT MY POLISH WIFE. THEY THEN FOUND OUT I SPOKE GERMAN!! ... SOLD THAT TOO..... NO MORE BIG FANCY CARS... I HAVE A COUPLE NICE PREWAR TRUCKS AND THE TRUCK GUYS ARE GENUINE AND NICE PEOPLE.

AND COME SPRING I WILL TEACH MY WIFE TO DRIVE THE 39 GMC.
CAN'T AFFORD ANOTHER T-HEAD MERCER AND HAVE ENOUGH THINGS THAT SO ENDS THIS CHAPTER.

OH THERE ARE A COUPLE BMW 328'S HERE STILL IF MY EYES GET BETTER (OR NOT)

ANYONE WANT A PREWAR 6C 2500 RACE CAR ROLLING CHASSIS?

 

JIM FUNNY STUFF. REMINDS ME OF A FUNNY STARTING STORY. THE 1913 CHALMERS I REFERRED TO WAS A GREAT CAR. BIG TOURING AND DROVE LIKE A DREAM. I HAD IT UP TO 70 ON THE SOUTHFIELD FREEWAY YEARS AGO AND IT WAS STEADY AS A ROCK. WE HAD AN AIR STARTER ON THE CAR-ORIGINAL. THE CAR WAS MOSTLY ORIGINAL AND MY GRANDFATHER REALLY LIKED THE CAR SINCE HE WAS AN ENGINE TESTER AT CHALMERS IN 1913.

THE AIR STARTER WAS REALLY A COOL SETUP AND WORKED WELL BUT ONE DAY BEFORE THE SHOW AT GREENFIELD VILLAGE THE STARTER WENT OUT. I HAD MY WIFE WITH ME AND I HAD TO CRANK START IT WHICH WAS NOT BAD BUT THE CAR DID HAVE A BIT OF A KICK ON OCCASION. WHEN I WAS AT THE SHOW THEY CALLED US DOWN TO THE REVIEWING FIELD AND SO I GO THROUGH THE PROCEDURE WITH SPARK AND THROTTLE AND GIVE IT A CRANK AND RUN BACK AND RESET SPARK AND PICK UP THE THROTTLE A BIT AND I SEE THIS GUY WITH HIS ARMS FLAILING AND SO I GO OVER TO HIM AND ASK HIM "WHAT'S UP" AND HE SAYS "MY WIFE MISSED WHAT YOU JUST DID CAN YOU SHUT IT OFF AND START OVER AGAIN?"

I LAUGHED AND GOT IN THE CAR AND WENT DOWN TO THE FIELD. GREAT CAR. I ENDED UP OWNING THE CAR AND SOLD IT TO MATT BROWNING. HE BOUGHT IT THROUGH HIS AGENT IN SAN DIEGO BUT I TOLD HIM HOW GREAT A CAR IT WAS AND HOW FAST IT WAS AND STABLE. AFTER HE GOT IT BACK HOME (MONTANA MAYBE?) HE CALLED AND TOLD ME HE WAS AMAZED AT THE CAR AND HOW GREAT IT DROVE AND WAS FAST. WITH ALL OF THE CARS THAT YOU KNOW HE OWNED-THAT IS SAYING SOMETHING. WHEN THEY AUCTIONED OFF HIS COLLECTION THEY HAD A NICE CATALOG AND MENTIONED ME IN IT, AS IF I WAS A COLLECTOR (LOL).

HERE IS A PIC FROM THE 53 GLIDDEN TOUR WITH A GABRIEL HORN ON
THE RUNNING BOARD. THAT HORN DROVE ME NUTS AS EVERYONE
WANTED ME TO PLAY A TUNE AND I HAD NO TALENT IN THAT ARENA (IT HAD A KEYBOARD ON THE DASH).