Hot Rods I Just Bought a 51 Studebaker Commander

Dare-to-be-different did you ever lower a 51 by flipping the spindles?

 

I wouldn't flip them. Wouldn't that mess up the angle of inclination?
Besides, the lathe centers are almost dead center on the early spindles, so flipping wouldn't help those. (that steering design was brand new in 51. 52 used exact copies, 53 coupes started using the lower-spindle versions that were eventually on all cars into the mid 80s Steve Blake Avantis)
You would end up in the same place height-wise unless you grabbed later spindles.
I also cut a half a coil (or 3/4??) off my springs on that one car, but then it became easier to bottom out during my crazy driving. easy-driving was fine, but I had a lot of rough roads to contend with.
Use the later spindles from the mid 50s and later.
They moved the axle-centers on the spindles to drop the cars about 1 1/2 or 2

WHY BE ORDINARY ?

 

HERE'S MINE - (1 of four bulletnose Starlite Coupes I've had)





Here's my Yellow Submarine that I hotrodded around in the 1970s and 80s.
Chrysler Cuda/RoadRunner/Dart Banana Yellow lacquer.
I airbrushed the sub from the Beatles album cover, then sanded it to look faded.
Loads of fun with that weird one.
Funny story (one of so many funny stories) - I was once using it to tow an open trailer piled high with furniture to help a friend move.
It looked like Beverly Hillbillies, psychedelic Beatles, and a Jules Verne science fiction machine crossed together. Complete with bicycles etc tied on the outside of the sideboards etc. odd looking.
We rode a highway into one town that had hundreds of people standing on sidewalks staring and pointing at us.
As we slowly followed the highway thru town looking very odd, and the side road turn-offs blocked with people, we saw flashing lights and fire trucks coming at us. We were about to block the city parade coming at us head-on.
I sold it at the 1988 or 89 Chicago Auto Show, and have missed it ever since.


WHY BE ORDINARY ?

 

If I knew where you are from and/or you were close to me, I'm pretty I sure have an extra two barrel manifold. I would practically give it to you, hell, it might still have most of a 259 still attached if ya had a couple buck to donate to the cause.

 

The early ones were cast specific to the carb. Layers ones can be modified to accept both. Have seen a couple dual and triple 2bbl at Studies swaps but few, far between and deep wallet stuff. So the suggestion for the later type would give you more carb choices in the interim.

 

I'm in Washington State. I'd love to buy a 259 from you, but I work for room and board on a farm, and I'm barely able to imagine my Studebaker endeavor! But I'm going for it.

 

But I'd love to buy the 2 barrel from you. Thanks a lot.

 

Ok, got it. Thanks very much.

 

I'd be happy to sell you a manifold cheap and send it to you. I have no idea what it would cost to ship. It is just to big to fit in a USPS flat rate box. It is approximately 13x13x4. However, if you look around you can probably find one locally. It seems like they sold a lot of Studes in Washington, back in the day. Check CL I always see Stude stuff for sale out your way.

 

I pulled two spark plugs today. I saw significant rust down in the spark plug ports. What do you think I should do?

 

Maybe I need to go with a 259 after all.

 

I guess it depends on what you mean by significant rust . When it is sitting, a v8 motor has valves open on at least two cylinders at all times. This allows moisture in the cylinders and causes the motor to stick. It is also possible that the motor got hot while running and blew a head gasket and has sat there with water in the cylinders for fifty years.

You can try to get it unstuck. There are threads here dealing with that. Basically, fill the cylinders with ATF and let it soak. Later, put a socket on the crank nut and see if it will move. If it does, work it back and forth until it is free (while keeping the cylinders filled with oil).
Next step (maybe the first?) is to pull the heads and see how bad the cylinders are. If the pistons are powdered with corrosion and rusted into the bore, then the motor needs a full rebuild.
If the pistons are merely stuck in a rusty bore you might still be able to save the motor. Clean the bores with 400 grit paper and lots of oil. When you get the exposed parts of the cylinders clean, work the motor back and forth with lots of oil and keep cleaning the bores as more is exposed. I admit, this is not the best method, but it may allow you to get another 20k miles out of the motor.
It is probably time to start looking for a 259, however. Check CL and/or IG. If you can't find one for sale directly, a lot of Stude guys out there have their own private parts hoard and/or several junk Studes. If you talk to enough people selling Stude cars or parts, you will meet or be directed to, someone with an extra 259 motor. You should be able to procure a decent core 259 for $100-150. I have seen runners for sale in the $250-400 range.

 

That's so helpful. Thankz. Is the 259 a direct bolt in?

 

From what know, all Stude V8 motors share the same architecture, with only small differences. Should drop right in.

 

The most common hop up for the Stude V-8 used to be to swap the caddy for it.

I have read that the stude engine and the early cad V8 were built in the same platform, I have also read that they were not. Some of the parts kind of interchange, like the adjustable rockers from the stude to the caddy or the intakes almost (they'll fit just not well). I have built a couple of stud-illacs and they are a real simple engine swap.

 

Ok. I am going to try atf first. Then I will look inside. What do you think would be the best auto ****** behind a 259?

 

I have a 700r4 (86 Chevy Caprice Taxi) behind a 63 Canadian Lark 259 in a 56 Transtar half ton PU, this is backed up by a 3.55 or 3.73 T bird rear axle. I only have about 400 miles on it because of a bent axle flange. Low first gear too low for unloaded cruising around, half way through an intersection from a stop and its gone to second. Overdrive top gear puts engine rpm at about 2200 calculated at 65 with 235 75 15 tires. Adapters are available from a couple sources, check Studebaker's drivers club for source, mine came one in the pile o parts.

 

Are the Cad V8 engines pricey?

 

Now you have gone and opened a can of worms! The short answer is, the best auto trans for a 259 is the trans already in your car. Stude Commanders up to '56 came with a Detroit Gear 200 (DG200) trans. The DG200 was a very advanced transmission for its day. However it had a fatal flaw in that you cannot rev the engine while in neutral or park. Doing so causes the trans mainshaft to attempt to lock-up and thus destroys the trans. A bad trans could be the reason the car was parked all those years ago. The DG200 is coupled to the rear axle by a two piece driveshaft with a center bearing and a slip joint in the driveshaft tube.
In 1956 Studebaker went to a Borg Warner Flight-o-matic trans. These also had a two piece driveshaft with a center bearing, and a slip-in-tube. In 1959 or so, Studebaker switched to a B-W FoM with a one piece driveshaft that had the slip joint in the tailshaft of the trans.
This is important since if you swap for a later trans you must have the driveshaft that goes with it. If that trans is a '59 or later, you not only need the driveshaft, but you also need to remove the center cross member, the one that acts as a center bearing support, from your car's frame. This also ***umes that a '51 had the same 116.5" wheelbase of later commanders (I believe it does), and the driveshaft is interchangable.
Finally, as stated above, there are adapters available that allow the use of GM (hydra-matic) transmissions behind your Stude V8. These require the use of a custom driveshaft, the removal of the center bearing support and the addition of a tailshaft crossmember, since Studes used a bell housing mount for their transmissions. It also requires that you figure out the transmission shift and kick-down linkages.

 

A 331 Caddy is a great engine and is a great fit in a Stude. However, they are not real common and the cost of rebuilding one is high. There is also the problem of what transmission is best behind it. If you are going through the trouble of swapping the motor and trans in your Stude, then a Chevy v8 with a hydra-matic is the simplest, cheapest and makes the most sense. Motor mounts are available for Chevy v8, but the swap would still require a tailshaft crossmember and custom driveshaft.

 

https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hcc/2015/03/America-s-Best-V-8-Engine--Studebaker/3747591.html
I'll just put this cool read here !
Plus extra; https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hmn/2009/03/Studebaker-V-8/1781406.html

 

The truth about the Stude and Caddy V8s. If you compare them side by side they look alike but have practically nothing in common (interchange). The Stude is overall smaller, has solid lifters instead of hydraulics, gear driven cam instead of chain etc.

Stude engineers took a long, hard look at the new 49 Cadillac and designed their own version. They even consulted with Cadillac engineers. But it is not a direct copy.

Have heard of using a Cad aftermarket intake but it does not fit unless modified. Bolt holes and ports do not line up until you file and grind here and there.

Stude rocker arms will fit the Cad and this was done in the old days, to get adjustable rockers so you could run a solid lifter cam.

That is about it. Because they are so similar the Cad engine will fit into the Stude without interference. It is bigger but nothing hits.

Once a popular swap, today you might as well use a Chev 350.

 

If it was my car I would definitely keep the original engine. Given your cir***stances you should do the same. Not sure what you mean by rust in spark plug ports. If it is outside the cylinder it means nothing. You could try putting some oil down the plug holes, a couple of squirts from an oil can is enough. Don't let any dirt fall in the plug holes, blow the area clean before you take them out. Then try turning the engine over. If it has been sitting a long time you could take off the valve covers oil the valves and check that they are not stuck. Tap the valve end of the rocker arm with a hammer, if it bounces back the spring is working if it goes thud the valve is stuck.

If the engine will turn over and valves are not stuck it will run 9 chances out of 10.

 

How many miles on the clock? Do you mean rust inside the engine? Will it turn over by hand, or on the starter? Keep in mind, your car is 6 volt positive ground. That means the battery is hooked up the opposite of modern cars. For testing purposes you can use a 12v battery. Make sure everything (lights, heater, etc) is shut off and don't grind and grind the starter too much or it will overheat. If the engine starts don't run it for more than 15 minutes or the coil can overheat.

Check if the valves are free and if the engine will turn over and report back. If there is rust in the cylinders it may be necessary to take the heads off, worst case the engine may be junk BUT my experience is, if the air cleaner was on, the hood closed, and the spark plugs in the engine it is not rusted up and will start and run with a little work.

DO NOT start tearing random things apart unless you have diagnosed a problem and know what you are doing. You can get it so messed up the oldest man in the world couldn't figure it out. Just do what I said and report back.

 

I totally agree with everything @Rusty O'Toole says above. Work with what you have. See if you can get the motor free first. If you can get it free then you can work on getting it running.
Pictures of the engine and the plugs you removed would really help us to know what you are dealing with.

 

Ok, will do. I will get back to you in a week. I have to save to buy some spark plugs, and wires, because the wires disintegrated when I pulled on off, and a thread of a spark plug disintegrated when I cleaned it. BTW, air filter was not on.

 

It has 72k on the clock. I will get a battery for it as it didn't come with one. It also is "stuck" in park.

 

Before you spend money on plugs and wires and battery does the engine turn over? Did you look down the carburetor? What do you mean the spark plug disintegrated?

If you don't have much money you can get plug wires off any junkyard V8. Plug wires are interchangeable if they are long enough. Pull them by the ends not in the middle. If you pull the wire you can break the conductor inside them.

I wouldn't spend much money until I knew the engine was ok. Air filter off is a bad sign, moisture and debris could have gotten into the engine.

 

The choke was closed on carb, so when I looked inside I didn't see any debris. I like the idea about getting wire at the junkyard.