37-38 Buick trans with early olds gears etc

Pontiac input shafts are 1-1/8" 10 spline, yes. I assumed Olds was the same, I think that size was common for many years.

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Just out in the shop looking at output shafts and see that I have one that look similar to your Pontiac in that it has that metal barrel spacer between the speedo drive gear and the rear bearing. I don't suppose you have a complete picture of that shaft or it's dimensions handy? Be nice to know for sure that it is a Pontiac piece which I will never use

 

Paul. looking at the pilot nose it appears a groove is cut or worn in it. Never seen that before. I wonder how they made up the difference in length running it behind an Olds?

 

1956 Pontiac main shaft, overall length 20-7/8"

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I also thought the groove was strange. But maybe this transmission was built to go behind a Pontiac?

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That is certainly possible. My observation was that it is painted the same color as the Olds bellhousing suggesting that it may have been attached to an Olds or maybe they sat it up and found it wouldn't work being too short. Who knows?
Thanks for the shaft dimensions. I will look at mine tomorrow.

 

The red bell and transmission did not come to me from the same source.

 

Well, tricked me for sure!

 

Just a P.S. to ( hopefully ) compliment your comment here & Skankin's: You will notice
that your Olds input splines are tapered down to the pilot surface whereas the Pontiac
is not tapered. The Olds splined diameter is larger than the Pontiac as well. ( Pontiac
splines are the same as a Chevy ). - I run a ( mid-50s ) Buick input shaft which is the
same spline as the Pontiac but, the Pontiac is shorter. ( The reason for this
is the tranny is behind a Nailhead ).

 

616...good point about the diameter of those shafts! What is the rest of your tranny behind the nailhead besides that input shaft? Just curious, you know.

 

'37 - '38 Buick 6 bolt case, '51-'56 Buick / Olds gears, Olds ( '51-'56 ) mainshaft & tail housing.
A '49 - '52 Pontiac rear-end which accepts '39-'56 Pontiac pumpkins & 'some' Olds ( '47 &
up us better ). A 401 Buick has powered my '36 Plymouth since 1965. - The '49-'52 axle housing
was perfect to maintain wheel track; only increased by 1/4'' each side.

 

On the left is a main drive / input shaft for a '56 Buick; notice the step at the pilot tip.
On the right is a '51-'56 Olds input shaft; larger diameter at the the splines ( than the Buick or
a Pontiac ).

 

Questions:
Can the front transmission bearing (first picture) be replaced without removing the main shaft? I a clutch release bearing support necessary?
Should the Old rear shaft (second picture) have an output shaft seal?
Help would be deeply appreciated.

 

I believe the front bearing can be replaced without removing the main shaft. I did it on a Cad Lasalle trans which is almost the same. Also the release bearing support holds the front bearing into the case so yes it is necessary.

 

yes on the rear seal. Might get lucky pulling the input shaft out but I have never been that lucky. The main cluster gear seems to interfere with the removal IIRC. And be aware that the needle bearings in the cup of the input shaft will instantly fall into the bottom of the case.

 

Too many years to recall, but I think I was able to remove that bearing when I was experimenting with disassembling these Buick transmissions... I'm talking about removing bearing without removing the input shaft, (like was just said above, input shaft cannot come out from the front). I'm not sure about getting a new one in, because I can't remember how tight it fits on the input shaft. Wait for someone to answer to know if it's not a super press fit. But read the rest of this long post first..

I can see the old Buick front bearing retainer / throw out bearing bolt holes were plugged, so I knew it's an old hotrod trans. It's missing the smaller bearing snap ring that goes in the groove on the input shaft. I couldn't find an old pic of yours on how the builder of your coupe made a Nailhead throw out bearing guide tube to this trans. Apparently it was hackery because something tore up the front main bearing cage from rubbing on what?

So I looked at all your old posts to try to understand what you are using this for. I also saw that this was once in a running coupe with a Nailhead. That explains why it has a shorter Buick input shaft with the ancient cork input seal in the shaft. Yes, you need a throw out bearing guide, which was called a candlestick , but it also is the part that retains the front bearing. It also acts as a oil guide with the Olds input spirals to pull oil back into the trans. So, there is no front seal on Olds setups.

Then I read more of your posts about once asking about using this trans behind a 1952 CAD 331 engine. If you're still doing that, your incorrect Buick input shaft needs to be replaced by a longer Oldsmobile input shaft. Then you need a 1951-up OLDS bell housing, a throw out bearing candlestick from Olds or CAD, a TOB and a fork . The CAD stick bell is for the LaSalle trans bolt pattern. Not all the Olds bell bolt holes line up on a CAD, you can drill/tap two new 3/8" holes at about 3 and 9 o'clock to make it work ok.

Also saw a better pic of your trans showing a side view of the Olds tail housing, it looks like it has part of an old style output seal .... it's like a stepped sheet metal housing that once had leather inside. Most other Olds seals were shorter and looked more like a modern seal. Your extended sheet metal thing I think was a dirt shield...

The reason I wrote this mess, is because I saw pics of your incredible early survivor 34 Ford coupe. That is what some guys wish a lifetime for...

But..I saw you recently had tried to sell your coupe, so I just wanted to let you know what's involved. So, you need to be inflicted with hardcore traditional fever to make it happen.

I put my 32 on the road in 2016 with the Olds motor with 37 Buick trans and it's my only primary car year round, I live alone and there is no modern car to use. Every time I drive it, I am stoked about the engine and trans choice and would never want a 4 speed or 5 speed. I'm in my 70s and these old style builds were what I dreamed of as a kid in the late 50s to mid 60s. It's like asking Moriarty if he kind of likes traditional customs... He would never give that up.

Let us know what's your plans..

 

Ah! The "Rod Father" has spoken. Good stuff there Frank! So much of this old traditional info is slowly disappearing. Great to see folks still have this valuable info

 

Thank you and others who have responded. It's great to have others who appreciate old hot rods. I plan on keeping the car and putting the 1952 Cadillac engine I have in it. I found an 50's Olds bell housing that I had the dowel pin holes enlarged and hole drilled for the protruding gear shaft rod. What year/model Olds input shaft do I need?

 

Walter, this chart may be of some value to you. I have a bunch of various parts hanging around as I have switched from the 37 Buick case over to a Ford Tremec top loader. PM me if I can be of any help.

PS Paul found that the Scout disk does not work, I used the Ford diesel one and it fit fine.


.....

 

You need the 51 to 56 input. I can tell that because you don't have the 57 to 64 mainshaft. Your mainshaft is the pre 57 because yours does not have the threaded hole on the back end for the later bolt on driveshaft yoke.

Sounds like Vtwhead should have all the pieces you need. He knows how to get in touch with me if he thinks I might have some part that he can't find. I might have a few things here.

 

One more thing, we don't know what type of syncro they used with that Buick input shaft. There is a very slight possibility it might be something that won't match up to the Olds input, as far as diameter of the syncro clutch ring that slides over the Olds input back end.

In that case, swap the syncro to Olds. I'm betting yours will work though.

 

Thanks for the valuable information. I am in contact with Vtwhead on needed parts. I'll let you know how the project goes.