I was reviewing some early hemi posts...not seeing what i am contemplating. I have an early 65 truck poly 318 in the original truck. I was thinking of swapping in an early hemi. Will it bolt right up to my bellhousing? From info i see it probably will. Just wondering if anyone else has done this swap? Plenty of room in engine compartment. Will car hemi work as well as truck hemi? Or should i just refresh 318 and add hemi heads? Thanks
There are no hemi heads that will fit the 318 block. But, the 318 isn't a bad motor on its own. They have a lot of undeveloped potential. Unfortunately not much hop up equipment is available. I believe the early hemi will fit if it is the 1954 - 58 that takes a standard type bellhousing. Early blocks had an extended block for the Fluid Drive trans system. They also had a longer crankshaft. Maybe the hemi experts will chime in with more details. From a dollars and cents standpoint it would make better sense to use a later 383, 400 or 440 or to keep the 318. Or, a 360 would be the easiest swap. Do you have a hemi or know where you can get one reasonable?
Thanks Rusty i do not own a hemi thinking about it. there are some out there locally and far away. Its tough to make the decision to purchase with limited info on swaps. You think a 360 will bolt right up? Is that still considered a small block?
I think you will need an adapter to mount to the hemi Wilcap makes adapters for just about any trans to bolt up to the hemi. I have a 392 hemi in my 40 Ford that I bolted up a Turbo 400 trans to. I know they have an adapter for the A833 mopar trans. Hemis are not cheap and machine work and parts can be costly. Over on hotheads web site there is parts available as well as tech advice. We had a hemi tech section here awhile back that had plenty of tech sections in it. Do a search for it.
I gotta go along with Rusty's thoughts. You can buy a good big block Mopar for a lot cheaper than a hemi. You would end up with a lot more horsepower, readily available parts everywhere and much less weight on the front end. It wouldn't have the "WOW factor" of a hemi, but it really would make for a more sensible swap in my book. 383's can be had REALLY cheap, too.
The 360 is an LA block same as the late 318 and 340. The block change came on '64 so you would (should?) have an LA block. Interchangable with all the later small blocks. The small MOPAR that could be converted to early hemi would be the poly motor, easily identifiable but the saw tooth valve covers. I think that they changed the bell housing bolt pattern when they changed blocks but don't hold me to that. Now here is a tid bit that I read in a MOPAR specific magazine a while back, I have not verified it as fact but I read it. The late magnum 360 heads were the same as the 340 castings, and all that is required to make them a hot rod head is valves and bowl blending. So add that to your vast collection of nearly useless information. Edit Damn it: @Rusty O'Toole and @zzford an B?B or B/RB in a Dodge pickup is what we used to call a Cowboy Cadillac.
If I'm remembering right the 273 was the first LA engine and the 318 A stayed around till 1967? It's easy to tell them apart by looking at the valve covers. Are the outside edges of the valve covers rippled? If so it's the earlier A engine. -Dave
So far as I know the only difference between the 318 and 360 is that the 360 is externally balanced so you have to use the matching torque converter or flywheel, or rebalance the old one. I think one motor mount may be an inch farther forward. 360 had a lot in common with the 340. Heads are practically the same except for smaller exhaust valves and bigger combustion chambers for lower compression. It all depends what you want to do and how much you want to spend. A later model 360 and matching trans out of a newer truck might be the best and cheapest swap. If you are happy with the power of the 318 then maybe a rebuild is in order. If you want to hop up the 318 it can be done. I think the 360 crank will fit. But this would cost money and not offer any advantage over a 360. A B or RB will fit, and give more power than the 360. A hemi is probably the most expensive especially on a horsepower per dollar basis. But, they sure look nice under the hood. You don't give us much to go on as far as how much you want to spend, how you plan to use the truck, how much HP you want, how much gas you can afford to burn every week, how big of a shop you have, how much work you can do yourself etc. But, you have some interesting ideas to mull over.
LOL in a mid '60s truck a first gen hemi while cool would be a step backward. The venerable, outlawed, and virtually unobtanium GenII 426 would be the engine to use. OK pardon me I am just stating the obvious here. Personally I would keep the 318 unless it was wore slap out, be it LA or A. But I am a ****er for an underdawg.
I am fairly certain the bell housing to transmission bolt pattern changed with the ‘62 models. So, Chrysler ‘54/‘58 hemis, DeSoto ‘52/‘57 hemis, Dodge ‘53/‘57 car and thru ‘59 Truck, fit transmission cases thru ‘61 models without adapters. It is true that later model LA and B/RB engines can produce more power for much less money. But if that was the only consideration the much revered Flathead Ford would be extinct by now. The cult like devotion FHF regularly found on this forum suggests there is more to engine preference than dollars to horsepower ratios. I have had a few flatheads and a have a few hemis........I would rather ‘waste’ my money on a hemi than a Flathead Ford......your choice may differ. Ray
The flathead was dead then someone shouted, "Lazarus come out." If the truck is a '65 and the LA hit the showroom floor in '65 then the LA for a swap would be the obvious choice in 'bean logic. No one has mentioned it but a tall deck 383 or a 413 is also a good choice. Yea yea I know obsolete right?
Bell patterns are the same for hemi & polys up to '61. 62 & later small blocks have the new pattern. So a 273/318/340/360 will bolt right up to the '65 ******. To put in any short tail early hemi in you would need an adaptor. If you have an A/T I recommend the one by Quality Engineered Components (QEC) he's "73RR" here on the board. T R Waters also has them. I think for a stick you need either Wilcap or Hot Heads.
...damn, I type too slow.... A re-cap. '65 318 is an A engine No Hemi heads for the A/LA engine (well nothing in practical dollars...) Adapter will be required to mate an EarlyHemi engine (as well as the pre-62 A engine) with a post-62 A/LA transmission. Pre-62 B&RB engines will not bolt-up to post-62 B&RB transmissions so be careful there. If you use a 360 you will need a 360 flywheel or converter or rebalance the existing to match the 360. B&RB engines are still available and relatively cheap but you will need a trans/bellhousing to match. Like others have suggested, a B-RB would be cool and a motor home style 440 and TF would be a sweet swap. .
Ha ha it just so happens there is a derelict motorhome down the road with a good 413 I could buy for practically nothing. This engine and trans would work great in any Dodge truck. The MH has less than 50,000 miles on it, about 1/10 the life span of a truck engine. If the OP happens to have any old motorhomes around, a lot of them were on Dodge ch***is up to 1978 (when they dropped the big block engine). Probably half of them have less than 50,000 miles on them when they are junked.
I think they had *peanut port heads but an B or RB heads would work. *not all of them had small port heads.
I'm sure it does have small port heads along with heavy duty, and heavy, rods crank etc that will all limit RPM. So what? In a truck you want torque not screaming high RPM horsepower. An old 413, dead stock, with original Torqueflite would tow a dump truck up the Rocky Mountains. We are talking a good heavy duty big block and matching heavy duty Torqueflite for its weight in s**** iron. How good to you want it? If you want it better, there are later 440s around too. It just happens this old motorhome is from the sixties.
Yep it would. I have changed the heads and camshaft in a few for peoples hotrods. They also have the later style 727 as a rule so no ball and trunnion crank coupling.
THANKS AGAIN. I was looking for some top end hp. While towing a 6000lb boat i lack the power to scale small hills without slowing way down. I have a home garage not a ton of space. I work with a jack and stands. Budget is a little at a time if i can get a 354 for 2000 i may jump at it. But all depends on out come of research. I run a NP420 and divorced transfer case. All stock. A 383 i will need ti change bell housing, mounts etc. ? I was looking for hp gain without changing much else. Thanks for all the input fellas
That is a lot of weight to be towing. I would forget the hemi and look for a 360. It would be the best bang for the buck and hopefully not over match the rest of the drive train. You will need a 360 flywheel or rebalance your old one, it would probably be better just to buy one. It would be good luck to find a 360 Magnum pickup with manual trans. The Magnum engines with low tension rings and fuel injections, can rack up quite high mileages without much cylinder wear. It is possible to overhaul one with rings, bearings, a valve job, and add a cam, intake, carburetor and headers and get 450 - 500 HP. Something like that should work great in your truck and not completely kill gas mileage. They are found in 1992 - 2003 Dodge trucks, SUVs and Jeeps. You should be able to find one cheap in your local wrecking yard. A web search for 360 Magnum turned up this web site on transplanting them into older Mopars http://www.magnumswap.com/first-steps/ There were a couple of articles from Hot Rod on hopping up the Magnum http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-0804-small-block-mopar-engine/ http://www.hotrod.com/articles/build-500hp-capable-360-magnum-short-block-cheap/ It's all according to how much you want to spend.
If it is a budget job find a good engine and install as is. If you plan a hop up it is best to go thru the engine and replace rings, bearings, timing chain, do the valves etc first. Especially in view of the hard work the engine will be expected to do.
Basically what I'm going to do with my 65 Dodge D300 1 ton which currently has the early 318 poly with the 4 speed that runs okay. Was going with a 413 motor home motor I got on the cheap...maybe - with it's auto...but got a good 360 out of another motor home and hoping the crank will take the 4 speed input shaft capabilities - have to be careful not all crankshafts are drilled for a standard transmission....have the bellhousing for the 360 and the 360 standard flywheel....what I hope is my old 5 speed New Process trannies will hook up to that 360 bellhousing....testing this later in the month....
You will find that a lot if not all the big block motor homes had HEMI transmissions in them. Check the number stamped on the pan rail. They had the five disc clutches and the double wrap bands. Dan
You will find that the heads on the 360 Magnum truck motor usually crack between the intake and exhaust valve seats. Lot of people at Chrysler Engineering say that it does not hurt the heads. Just so you know there will most likely be cracks there.
Thanks 383 is a good option. I would have to change the bell housing for the big block? Its all making more sense now.
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