Technical Front suspension rebuild...problem...please help

Get well soon, cars don't matter much when you don't feel good.

 

Not setting it up at ride height.

Let's just say when you took it apart the bars were all 4 the same length and you took it apart on a lift at full droop ,,,, Then you would have the front axle in tension, it wouldn't be easy to dis***emble and axle would jump forward,right? Now reinstall the very same pieces on a lift you would have to pull and fight the axle to make the bolts in the bars, right? Yes. Set it down and everything is where it was. That's if you used all the same parts

 

I think the easiest way would be to put the car in park or set the parking brake to make sure it won't move back or forward and then with the front four bar setup disconnected, chock the front wheels under the front crossmember and lower the car until it's at ride height. You can adjust the chocks forward or backwards to center the axle and then set your caster. When you're happy with the centering of the axle and caster, adjust the ends of your four bar and attach them to the bracket.

 

That is exactly my intentions...

 

I may be wrong on this but didn't he say that the crossmember was put in at 7degrees, I think that hes trying to figure in to many angles at one time.

 

The goal, I would think...would be to achieve 7 degrees with zero twist or bind in the spring...
I ***ume that is why that 7 degrees was built into the car...
I understand what is going on with that

 

I can ***ure you that is not the easiest way, it may work if you now understand what you are fighting.

 

Your frame might have the crossmember welded in at 7* but at what rake in the ch***is? If that 7* was set with the frame flat on a welding jig and you raise the rear of the frame with larger tires, lower the front of the frame with smaller tires, the frame is no longer sitting at the angles it was in the fixture then you no longer have a crossmember that is 7* to the horizon (might only be 3 to 5* at that point). The more rake in the frame, the less angle in the crossmember. 7* is a relative term, you have to know if it was at rake/final ride height or flat on a welding fixture to actually use that number with any conviction. I think you're putting too much stock in that number.

SPark

 

He has adjustable spring perches.

 

Doesn't really matter if the front crossmember has 7 degrees build in or not. He has adjustable spring perches and his caster will be set using the king pin inclination, not the frames.

 

I totally understand and 100% agree. He keeps referencing his 7* crossmember angle. He needs to forget that and work with what he has.
SPark

 

I understand...
It was 7 degrees at ride height...stance...

 

It was 7 degrees at ride height...stance...
I can fine tune from there as needed...

 

If you told me you wanted 7* in the cross member it would be frame level and 7* in the cross member- exactly as it's stated.

 

OK>>>I am feeling better and back at the shop...
Today we disconnected the bars and gently let her down and she sat pretty with no problems at all...

We actually make signs all day and usually fool with the car for a few minutes (or longer) at the end of the day if there is time...

We quickly got the front axle square with the rear axle or within a TINY fraction of an inch for reference...
It appears as tho another 3/4" to 7/8" has to come off the bars...see pix...
Tomorrow we will cut the bars and start tapping threads...

Even after this we have to rearrange the shock mounts...
Doing this seems to have changed the geometry of those as well...
I think that this front end was set up wrong from the giddy up...

I think this will be a huge improvement in the ride and handling of this car...

 

There ya go!! I knew you could do it.

 

I used to build ch***is upside down sometimes. This was an example of why.

Uh...to clear this up, I had the customer 'directing'. (They are always right)
Immediately, the ch***is would flip over on the table, and the one spring would be fitted. Customer: "WHAT are you DOING???"
Me: "Saving time, grace, and breath." Customer would then shut up.
Streamline. Fly 'inverted'. Consult aero dynamic manual. Lift inconsequential.
Gravity? Quotient.

 

What about the stainless bolts holding the bars on?

 

What about them...???

 

Generally very low grade and unsuitable for highly stressed applications, like suspension.

Chris

 

I have run them on the rear for years with no issue...
Anybody else care to chime in here...?

 

Stainless bolts fall in between a grade 2 and grade 5.
That's what they are.
Big diameter stainless seeing mostly shear loads with bushings are not likely to give much of a concern other than gauling.

Using them in a different manners, or with small diameters or non bushed loads or high impact conditions and you'll see exactly why stainless isn't the best choice. Something like a stainless spring perch is a big wonderment and something to worry about.

 

So........................no concern...?
My bolts are F593C and a couple of the ones pictured below...

 

Your car your concerns.

You know the chain is as strong as its weakest link,,, the whole thing depends on these vertical blots and their holes and edge distance because those would be the smaller in that chain.

 

I hear you there...
These were recommended by someone here on a different thread...
I was actually considering replacing those with hardened bolts...

How much stress do you think these are really under...under normal conditions...???
I mean...short of running into something they don'e each carry that much load do they...?
Thanx

 

They are in Shear loading.

 

If those adjusters are what I think they are (Kugel - or possibly copies thereof - Speedway?) the 'vertical bolts' are shoulder bolts with the shank much chunkier than the heads might otherwise suggest. Interesting point on the material around them. I have used them on upper A arms on an IFS which don't see that much of a loading. Not seen them used in this way however and not qualified to comment.

Chris

 

Yes...they are genuine Kugels and yes....you are correct about the shank being beefier...