hey guys, ive got untill saturday night to fix this at latest and my budget is nearing the empty side so i was hopeing someone could shed some light on my problem. before i go into it the car is a 1953 with the stock flathead v8, not that it probably maters but its a 3 spd overdrive car. stock carb and ect. the car starts just fine no real hesitation just pop the choke out a tad and fire it up when i pour a little gas in the carb. so last night i ran my line from the pump threw the little metal fuel filter and into a red gallon jug of gas to see if the pump was working or not. the previous owner said that he beleived the diaphram was getting preety worn out so when the pump didnt suck gas thats what i asumed the problem was. got up early this morning and rebuilt the carb with the rebuild kit id already bought and put it back on. rolled the car out side, put it in nutreul, clutch in, foot on the brake so it wouldnt roll down the drive backwards put a little gas in the carb, pull the choke and fire it up. feed it a little gas with the throttle or at least i tried to the car just dies when it runs out of gas that id dumped in. when i shut the car off and pull the hose out of the tank no fuel comes back out of the hose. i put a little bit of gas in the sedement bowl before putting it back together also. any of you guys have any ideas? this car is supposed to get me home and this is my last hurdle. any ideas? thanx in advance tim
as a diagnostic tool i would put the outlet hose from the fuel pump into a jar or coffe can then run the car with the gas in carb as done before. look in the jar or can to see if pump is discharging, if not, pump not working either repair or replace. good luck
Had the same prob when I first had the Beater together. Put an electric pump on it near the tank and forget about it. A cheap parts store pump and regulator should run you less than $40. Set the reg at 2 1/2 psi when ya gt it runnin'. Have fun and good luck.
yeah everbody says go electric but i spent the last bux i had to buy the rebuild kit, im bumming a tank of gas to get my self home so id like to just get this pump to work. and because posts with pix seem to do better...................
Check the pushrod lift & also the length of the pushrod, both those faults would give simular symptoms. I ran an electric pump to get me out of trouble & always keep a spare with me for good measure, but i've gone back to mechanical through choice. Kev.
Sounds to me like you messed with a possibly troubled carb while suspecting possible pump troubles and now who knows what's happening--I know, I spent whole decades like that SO--we need to sort it out! Try to do this with decent hose and clamps so the next response isn't about a major fire: Hang up a good small container, like a lawn mower gas tank or a screw top can like brake fluit with a piece of tubing soldered to it over your motor. Hook a hose to it, loosen up the metal carb to pump tube, remove said tube from pump, and point it straight up from carb towards your little tank. Hook tank to line with a piece of fuel hose clamped on. You seriously don't want leaks during this!!! Fire extinguisher ready, too! Fill the little tank--even a pint is plenty. STOPRIGHTNOW if anything leaks or looks too shaky! carb will work fine with gravity feed. If car now starts and runs, carb is reasonably OK. If no go, you have stuff to fix there... Pump: First measure up&down of the pushrod. Should be around .2", from dim memory. If significantly less, you're looking for an electric pump... If motion is plentiful, check for suction and output, both of which can be stymied by bad bowl gasket and several other things... Either borrow/steal the old vac/fuel pressure type gauge, or simply put your thumb tightly over the relevant hole. Intake of pump shouls suck pretty hard as engine cranks, output should blow some. I don't have any numbers here at work, but if each is reasonably perceptible it should run, if none of either or both pump needs work!
Tim, in addition to what has been said it appears that the suction side of the fuel pump has a filter installed before the sediment bowl; you might check to see if it is installed to flow in the proper direction. Sometimes in the heat of the battle things get overlooked. I don't personally install inline filters on the suction side of flathead fuel pumps; the passage feeding the diaphragm from the sediment bowl is pretty restrictive in itself. Given the relative low pressure/volume capacity of the pump I always felt that the additional restriction on the suction side could cause problems. This is just an old farts opinion but it has always worked for me; good luck
Also make sure you have no leaks on the suction side of the pump. Check to make sure the hose clamps are tight, the hoses have no cracks and the fitting that threads into the pump is properly sealed. A leak on the suction side of any pump will draw air instead of fuel and can drive a person nuts trying to find the problem.
Since this puppy has been setting for a period of time since it was last run, there is no reason to believe that the fuel pump is any good. If this car has been setting idle for more than a year and was stored without draining the gas from the system, you can just about bet that the diaphram of the fuel pump is junk. Since the car runs ok until the carb runs out of gas it is safe to assume that the carb is not the problem. I use Bruce's remote gas can method all the time with questionable old engines and unknown fuel pumps. In most cases since this car is so complete the fuel pump pushrod action is suffficent to operate the pump so pulling the fuel pump stand and measuring is a waste of time. Yes you can check the fuel pump easily by removing the in let line and placing you finger over the inlet port and cranking the engine to determine if there is any suction, its not a lot but you can feel it. The next step is to remove the pump, simply separate the top and bottom of the fuel pump and check to see if the diaphram is stretched, torn or rotted. The diaphram should be relatively flat to the plane and free of wrinkles or sags. If it is lube the diapram and check valves with a little Marvel Mystery oil and you can try to see if it will function buy pumping it by hand and listening for the suction cycle, but this will only have limited success. If the engine stopped with the push rod in the push or pull position the remaing gas has probaly caused the diaphram to fatigue and rendered it useless. For about $49.00 you can purchase a new pump and this is one thing any flathead owner has as a spare also. The next problem point is the rubber flex hose that goes from the firewall to the carburator. If this is an original briaded style it should be checked for cracks, and insure that it is not bending or collapsing internally when looped. This is an often overlooked spot of fuel supply problems. This car looks pretty sound so just replacing the pump should be the cure. Just install a see thru in line filter at this so that you can keep the junk out.
I saw a guy stick a washer on top of the fuel pump rod to make it longer and it pumped fine.......Another reason Im done with flatheads GOOD LUCK TIM.
Choprod's suggestion is right on, I have done this many times but I began using a dime I ground down to the correct diameter. The thinking being that the dime was softer than the cam and steel pushrod, keeping any additional wear on the dime, so to speak.
thanx guys, as i said uber broke so im not buying a new pump right now. i rebuilt the pump this morning so EVERYTHING inside the case is new and tight. the filter is install correctly i double double checked it and all the non hardline hose is brand new and more then tight and the only hose right now is like 6 inches from the hardline into the filter into the pump. the rest is all hard. the pushrod is just fine in length and motion all i can think of is that the extra filter is to much restriction for the pump. im going to pull the filter off and try it again tomorow seeing as im running from a brand new plastic lawn mower tank i shouldnt have enough gunk in there to not be caught by the sedement bowl. if that doesnt work i guess ill stand around and scratch my head for a while and maybe cuss a little ; ) thanx tim
I may be way off here but on the 50 im working on for my fiance when we hooked up the gas tank I had to cover the carb throat with my hand to suck fuel into the pump after that it ran fine. Primo
The fuel pump lobe on mine was flat. Spent a bunch of time trying to figure out what was wrong with the pump itself. When I figured it out I got one of those cheap NAPA pumps and mounted it back by the tank. By the way make sure you use a short section of hose on both ends. I hard lined mine and the pump noise seemed to be amplified. Also I ended up placing a rubber pad between the frame and pump. Paul
I suggested checking the pump stroke, Dick, because the car is a '52-3! Those particular flatheads did have pump lobe problems--because many came from the factory with a double pump, extra diaphragm to pump vac for the wipers! They are the only flatheads that typically have bad lobe wear there, and the evidence is usually gone because everyone changed to a regular pump on the first failure after they found out what the deluxe pump cost!
hey guys, tried that hand over the top of a the carb trick and it fired right up! i let it run for a while out of a one gallon plastic jug with the rubber hose dunked in it and shut if off aftter about 10 minutes or so. i had to have the choke almost all the way out for the firt few mintues but it then settled down and ran just fine with it in. i went to go get some one to follow me so if i broke down i wasnt screwed and when i came back i had to do the hand over the carb think again to get it started but it worked and i got it going. i drove it the mile home uphill just fine! got it on video and everything but of course i get in front of my house and decided to do a victory lap around the block and it dies. i tried the hand over the carb thing and it didnt work so i just pushed it back to the drive way. im wondering if A) i need to have it hooked up to a real fuel tank and then i wont have to keep trying to mess with this hand thing or B) i have a vacum leak? thers only one hose coming out of the cab base that looks like a vacum line and it looks ok? guess we'll find out but at least it ran for a while, and ran flawless at that! tim
I heard a real similar story from a guy with a similar flathead car about 2 yrs ago. When all else failed, he traced every inch of the line from the tank, and found a section of rubber hose where the line went thru the frame or over a crossmember. It was completely hidden, he could only feel it when reaching up there. There was a crack in the rubber. The other thing is, I don't see where you've taken the suction line off and cleaned it out. I fought similar problems, long cranking times, etc., on my F-1 and when I pulled the line it was packed solid with rust particles. It took a couple cans of carb cleaner to get it out, by then I decided to replace it with new coated lines. I also cleaned and coated the tank. I haven't had a single problem since.
Glad you got it home. I suggest saving for an electric fuel pump. Had several flatheads in my youth and got so I carried ice water to cure the vapor lock.
well y "daily" mazda totaly broke down so this non fuel pumping flathead is all ive got now. i got the new super great tank in from carkiller and everything hooked up but i still cant seem to get it to pump. im going to try and syphon the gas up to the carb and then see what happens. getting closer, got 7 hours left :S thanx in advance tim
I'm in the same position.. I ran my 53 wagon the other day went up a hill and it died.. sprayed starting fluid and it started and died I was either out of gas or pump went bad jus like that?.. ordered a pump from Napa and I Know this is an old listing cause mine was $104 Not $40 and advance wanted $145 HA! Anyway yesterday bought a gallon of gas and wife said "'put it in the tank".. I said it ain't gonna do nuthin but ok.. put it in, gave to pumps to the gas pedal and boom.. worked.. Ugh! Women!?? Picking up the Napa pump anyway just in case it was a fluke
The Jalopy Journal
