Hot Rods Help from the Falcon Folks

Guys
Picked up the car below...289 C4 and obviously 5 Lug spindles put on it at some point. I believe the car was originally a 6 cylinder car. It had some other issues I’ve worked through and took for its maiden journey today...not good. The front end sounds like it’s ready to blow apart it you hit a crack in the sidewalk... I got it back in the shop and did the “ grab the wheel” test and both of them wiggle a bit so I know it needs tie rod ends for sure..shocks are shot too...

So my dilemma..was there a difference in 6 cylinder and V8 front end components on these cars? Because I’ve got 5 lug drums would I go with V8 tie rod ends? Can you run 5 lug spindles with the 6 front end comments? It’s killing me not being able to drive this thing. I’ve got an invite for the Ford Employee show next month and I need to get this done by the end of the month. Thanks for any help I can get..gonna head to the parts store soon

 

I could be wrong, but I think they are the same. I think the difference is manual vs power steering. What was used to put the 5 lug up front? Did anything get swapped from something else? Like I said, i could be wrong.....

 

I’m ***uming at least the spindles...

 

If it was a 6 and the previous owner gundecked the job, it's possible you've got a mix of steering parts and NO they're not the same. It's simple enough to replace the spindles, but getting the right stuff from there inward is a task. The center link is the biggest hurdle; everything else is out-of-the-catalog stuff available from good parts stores or Rock or even Amazon. Get her up on a lift and start yanking/pulling/pushing on everything under the car. Chances are, it's all in need of replacement BUT that's not a break-the-bank job. Don't be fooled into using Mustang parts, either; they're just different enough to get you into trouble.

 

Oh,and by the way, looks sweet!

 

I know the President of the Metro Detroit Falcon Club. I'm sure he could help you with info. I have his contact info, but don't know how to send you a private message. Is it start a conversation?

 

After 6-10-64 6 cyl. and 8 cyl. are different. P/S on the v8 is different on the left side tie rod ends

 

The V8s and sixes used different steering parts. Control arms and strut rods are the same IIRC. If the car was converted, you'll also need to check to see which version of the V8 steering was used as there's two types. Type 1 was used '63 until very late '64 and shares almost no parts with the type 2 '65 linkage. The early linkage is expensive to work on, and a few parts are very hard to find. The late linkage basically uses '64.5-66 Mustang components with the exception of the center link which is Falcon/Comet specific. You can tell them apart by looking at where the outer tie rods attach to the center link; the early linkage uses shorter tie rods and they attach right at the ends of the center link. On the late linkage, they're longer and attach about 4" in from the ends of the link.

If you have the early linkage, it will be nearly as cheap to upgrade it all to the late type rather than repair.

There's also one other thing to check... Ford built two different bodies for the '63-65 Falcons; a six cylinder version and a V8 version (convertibles got the stiffer V8 body regardless of drivetrain). Mercury used the two versions for the Comet in '63, but switched to the V8 body for all models in '64. The six version used much lighter-gauge metal in the frame rails, rockers, and shock towers and also lacked the torque boxes tying the rockers/frame rail together. These have been known to develop cracks when a V8 is installed, particularly where the upper control arms attach to the shock towers. Cracks there will cause 'strange' handling as well as being extremely dangerous.

 

yes, "Start a Conversation" = send a PM.

you could look on rockauto.com to see what they list, or get out an old parts book and read it for yourself. Have fun....

 

Squirrels' post shows the early type in the pic...

And also notes that Ford changed the linkage late in the '64 model run.

 

Yes please

 

I guess I'm glad mine started life as a v8 5 lug car!! Good luck with yours!

 

Can't help ya but it's cool car. I've always liked those...

 

So basically if I order all of this up including the center link and I should be good to go? Is it safe to say I got V8 spindles on the car due to them being 5 lug?

And Steve...that’s crazy...never knew that. It’s got torque boxes..so I guess I’m ok there

 

Can't help with the issue.......

That is a very nice looking car though. Enjoy

 

Where’s this from?

 

If your body has the torque boxes, it is a '65 V8 car so I would ***ume it has the type 2 steering also. Much cheaper to replace parts...

There were also a couple of variations; the '64-65 six cylinder Rancheros and wagons got the 'V8' framerails and torque boxes in the rear only, I ***ume because of the weight they were expected to carry. The earlier ones may have been the same, but I don't know that for sure.

 

I scanned the old Moog catalog.

 

A breakdown of the VIN will tell you if it was built with a 6 or 8.

ID plate on driver's door will have build date.

Stop driving on sidewalks... Problem solved.

 

Yeah I gotta get back at it tomorrow..I’ve been working my tail off the get this thing running better and when I went down the end of the drive I thought the wheels were gonna fall off..between the sound and the feeling in the steering wheel...argggg

 

Well I got the warranty number
5H17U18134...I don’t think it was a V8 car..

Nope that U means 6...so know..it’s got 5 lugs, could the problem be those are bolted to V8 sprindles? The 6 cyl tie rods are too small causing the issue..so I’ll have to by everything listed in that old moog catalog and make the switch..

Also looks like I gotta order up some subframe connectors

 

I believe that I have posted this before but if it will help you here it is again. The difference between early and late V8 manual steering. The late model Parts interchange with early Mustang except the center link which is narrower than a Mustang. You may find a difference in the sector shaft size on your car, it could be 1” or 1 -1/8”.
This photo was found in an online article, so credit goes to whom ever originally posted it.

 

Awesome thanks..so the big mystery..will these parts bolt up to the spindles on the car..it seems like they should since it’s 5 lug

 

ES-328 and 329 have a larger stud than the others...

 

So basically if I order all of this up including the center link I should be good

is that the only difference? I thought the V8 stuff was beffier

 

I don't know if that's the only difference, I just wanted to point out that the steering arms may or may not fit the tie rod ends you get. You might need to do some investigating into exactly what you have, before you order parts.

 

I went through all of the differences with my barn find falcon project, everything is different including the steering gear. I ended up using the front end steering components from a V8 parts car I had in my stash.

 

This might help you- I installed a ‘67 Mustang (Cougar) steering box in my Comet and used the ‘65 V8 steering components. I did need to use the Mustang pitman arm because of the size difference of the sector shaft, and I used a matching column as the Comet/Falcon column is connected directly to the steering box. I may have a factory Falcon/Comet V8 Box in my parts stash.

 

You need 65 Falcon/Comet V8 steering components... ( the picture kabinenroller shows on post #22 is what you need)…. 65/66 mustang parts are the same except for the center link which needs to be
65 Falcon/Comet V8 car only..... If you have the 6/cyl steering box, all you will need to do to it is change the pitman arm to 65 Falcon/Comet V8 .....
Good Luck with your project.... you have a very nice looking car....

Another place to shop is FALCON Parts.com, they have everything you need....

LynnW

 

You don't want to go on a wild goose chase....
You don't want to chase your tail either....
Lastly....Don't throw the baby out with the bath water....
Too add some more confusion, I do believe some of the Futura 6s had 5 lugs.
Also Fairlane stuff is possible.

The $64 dollar question is...
Is your real problem due to... a mix match of parts?
Or....
Simply worn components?

If I were in your shoes, I would first check for obvious wear. ....
Ball joints...
Tie Rod ends....
Steering box....
Bearings...
The ******* combo, if thts what it is may be repairable.
Other wise you need a complete untouched 5 lug parts car.
It's a daunting task to reverse engineer a V8 front end from scratch.