I got an HEI I been thinking of putting in my sbc, I know I won't have to worry about points, condenser etc but is there an increase in power out of the engine? thanks
it's a hotter spark, so you might notice something but mainly it should start a little quicker. i'm going to get slamed for this but if you really want to go to electronic maybe a pertronix kit (and carry a uni point set w/condensor).....i really don't like the way hei looks, plus then you have a module to worry about. my .02
I'd "worry" about the electronic before the points. If you use good points/cond and not something made in god knows where, you'll have a very reliable ignition that'll give fair warning when it's time to service. Electronic, you can stop for gas, and go to start the fucker, and NOTHING! No warning. This is opinion. Hotter spark? Probably, but nothing you'll feel in the "seat of your pants" And they're kinda ugly.
would the HEI improve fuel economy with the hotter spark? right now the engine starts with just a bump of the starter so if I ain't gonna get any more ooomph I'll keep the points distributer the HEI is a big ugly thing thats for sure
we sell a lot of work on HEI at the shop, and some come back , with trouble , also install a bunch of Pertronix , and have had no trouble with them , and they look better ( old ) too.
I hear that the original pertronix had a little trouble, but the pertronix II is supposed to be really really nice. My pops runs one and it hasnt failed yet. Plus its an electric ignition that looks just like the factory. I would say if your running fine now dont bother converting, use the money on a weakness, then when youve tackled all you can think of, or just need to change out points, swap in a Pertronix II, hot coil, and open those gaps a little.
No, you probably won't see any milage improvment. Your points are probably lighting the fire just fine. If you were seeing ignition related misfires or something, then the hotter spark would help, but on a well tuned, properly operating system, all a hotter spark gives you is a hotter spark.
i would agree that you won't see a mileage jump. the hotter spark really comes from the coil, you can get aftermarket coils in black for a points set-up. by the way i've installed many pertronix kits over the years in customers cars without any problems (some were universal for odd makes), i have had one in my elco for about 9 years without a problem (i have the black flamethrower coil also), my other cars/trucks have points and work just as good.......you just need to change them every once and while. so basicly it's up to you.
HEIs? Yes, they're ugly and don't have "the look", but I've owned several cars with them and never had a problem, including the one in my 255,000 mile Chevy truck. One thing's for sure--if you do break down, the first parts store you make it to is way more likely to have HEI parts on their shelves than Pertronix parts. As far as my own rod goes, I keep it vintage with a fifty year old Mallory, and keep spare points and condenser in the glovebox just in case. Remember also that a 50,000 volt coil doesn't fire with all 50,000 volts unless the spark plug requires that much voltage to work. If it will fire at 12,000 volts, that's all the coil gives it.
Just for good measure, I keep a set of points and condensor in teh glove box just incase the Pertronix ever does fail.
I can't say for sure if the HEI is the answer, but here's my story... I owned a non-traditional car (not worth mentioning here) with a 350 that had points and condenser ignition for the 5 years that I owned it. (Only needed points/condenser adjustment once in that time)... Anyway, with the Rochester 2 bbl and points, I could never get more than 13 mpg. When I was "done" with the car, it had developed a problem where one of the spark plugs would foul, so every 500 miles or so you had to either swap in another plug or clean that one. I gave the car to another HAMBer who drove it on several long road trips, each time having to mess with the fouling plug every 500 miles or so. In the time he had it, he put an HEI on it and a Holley 600 4 bbl. He gave the car back to me recently and on my trip up from Georgia I got 17 mpg and the spark plug doesn't foul anymore. ...But from a reliability standpoint I don't trust electronics...
I learned this lesson the hard way. My Ignitor II let me down in the Thumb once, which is a long way from home. I've got an Ignitor I in there now and it's worked fine thus far, but I always keep my old points and condensor setup in the trunk just in case.
Who says HEI's have to be ugly??? I'm here to tell you it just ain't so. Faced with this exact same dilema - I wanted to have a system with the oomph of an HEI - the looks of a "Points" setup and avoid any aftermarket speciality parts I couldn't get in BFE should I break down. My answer was this: I rounded up a Corvette mag impulse distributor (granted not easy to find - but you can still buy the stationary pole piece and the rotating pole piece new and THOSE are the only "special" parts) - and then I hooked it up to a HEI module I mounted far away from the distributor. This was fired from a separate coil. Basically all I did was to construct a HEI type system that utilized separate components. Cap and rotor were "points" parts - available anywhere. The module was a GM HEI - CAUTION here - should you try this I highly reccomend that you get the GOODWRENCH item as the aftermarket ones always failed after a couple months for me in this setup. This system worked flawlessly with the GM components for years and years. I wouldn't hesitate to put it on my next car - which I will do because this was the only thing I KEPT when I sold the vehicle.
Good post, HR. You should try doing an illustrated tech piece next time we have Tech Week (or now, anytime is a good time for tech). Everyone could benefit from that!
one disitinct advantage I have become aware of recently- all the aftermarket starters are setup for HEI, there's only one extra terminal, instead of two designed for the points ignition, so you need a diode to still send 12 volts to the points when starting, or upgrade to HEI. Needless to say I'm still running a garbage starter..............
HEI probably won't outperform a fresh set of points that you just installed. Then again the HEI will ALWAYS perform at that level unless you lose a module or have some other failure. The points will NEVER be that good again until the next time you install fresh points. It's a little thing, and very, very gradual, but the contacts, pivot, and rubbing block WILL wear over time and your timing and dwell WILL degrade with mileage. Sure, ignition modules have been known to fail, but I've only replaced one on my own cars in 25 years of driving. That's pretty good reliability. On the other hand i've replaced a whole bunch of points on cars, motorcycles, and small engines. It adds up to a lot of work.
The most common problem with an older points type ignition has to be bushing wear. As the lower bushing wears dwell becomes more and more difficult to set. HEI isn't as effected by bushing wear.
Watch out on that one. I put a Uni-points set in a dissy that had had seperate points and condenser and the car backfired badly at higher speed cruising, kie at freeway speed. It was ok while accelerating but when you got to speed, it would start the 21 cannon salute. I figured out that the location the points ended up bolted down to the moveable points plate was slightly off relative to the cap so when the mechanical advance was all in and then the manifold vacuum came in at "cruise" the rotor was so far advanced in the dissy it was firing the next cylinder in the firing order instead of the one it should fire. I put seperate points and condenser back in it and it was fixed. All that new-fangled electronic stuff is fine in STREET RODS. Whatever floats your boat, or fires your rockets. Are you building a STREET ROD or a TRADITIONAL HOTROD?
its in a 49 f1 so nobody would ever see my distributor with either kind, I have an HEI and was wondering if there was any advantage over a points kind. the points one I have in is working fine so with no power increase I am gonna save myself the trouble of changing it out
One small problem with the points/condenser set-up is that if you happen to be working on your ride and you happen to leave the key on for the right period of time with the points in the right position, even a brand new set of points will fry right through. You just have to remember.
#1 rule on hei's, DON'T BUY CHEAP PARTS! that means stay the fuck out of the bubble pack stores (wells shit has got to be the worst) gap yer plugs to .045 and buy quality wires... they're still big and ugly but most distributers are....
PICK YOURE POISON! To add my .02, I had a pertronix II unit and it sucked! The pertronix kit had about 5 miles at the most on it so when it went bad I thought there was no way it could be my new aftermarket HEI unit! After going threw everything twice I finally put points back in and WALLAH she purred like a kitten. So for me, my truck will have points (and a spare in the glove box) My wifes 71 blazer will have stock hei for reliability but I keep a spare module in my tool box.
There are a few points to look at for HEI or electronic and that is at higher rpms there is no point bounce so better performance and there is no wear of the point rubbing block on an HEI so over the same driving mileage you should see an increase in mpg. The reason auto companies went to electronic was emissions and keeping the emissions at a controlled point with points you failed. So if the engine performs better or more consistent then your mileage and power will be better then points. I was at Chrysler when we changed over to electronic and I can say that performance, mileage, and emissions all improved due to electronic ignitions and when you think about it plugs went from 8-10 thousand miles with points and 30 thousand with electronic and now with platinum its 100 thousand miles with electronic. If you want the stock look there are plenty out there to do the job. Just another way to look at it in my opinion.
Replaced Points With Hei.283.to Me Its Just A Better Situation. No Resistor Or Having To Find A Place To Put The Coil. No Adjustments Necessary. Problems, Bigger Unit, Some Intakes Have Interference Problems
Just an observation; don't get me wrong, I'm not going to rip the HEI out of my truck and replace it with a points distributor, but I don't understand how a bunch of guys that build driveable cars out of junk and make suspensions from scratch can be so concerned about running a distributor that may need to have the contact points replaced someday. People used to drive cars with points from NY to CA, and they didn't die in the middle of Death Valley because the points melted. For chrissakes, some of you are running six 97s on the street! Why? Because it's got the vintage look that most of us strive for. My 303 will get either one of my fifty year old Mallorys, or the W&H DuCoil I recently picked up, and if that means an occasional point gap adjustment, so be it. Rods are for tinkering on.
My coupe uses points and condensor and my 53' uses HEI. Which one left me stranded by the side of the road?? THE HEI!!! Going to Road Rocket Rumble last year on a HOT 100 degree day, The magnetic sensor Quit working And left me 5 miles from my destination. Had to get it flat towed to the show and luckily my buddie was there with a spare in his trunk. There is many different modules for these Distributors so you have to know which one u need. 5 years with my points distributor and 1 set of points on the coupe. Spoons
If it already sparks ok and lights off the mixture, the HEI won't help add any power or torque. If you're on the verge of lean-misfire and have flatness off the line, it may help you run smoothly through that. GM really did the right thing in the technical design of that system. There is a great SAE Technical Papper on the wonders of it writen by Huntziger (sp?). Not that this is the final answer, but these are my experiences... I put 200k miles on my 1984 V-6 S10 pickup over thirteen years on the original distributor, cap, rotor, and plug wires. I never even had to pull off the cap to look. I had a set of points go south in my 1974 Jeep Cherokee after about a year. I've heard the aftermarket HEI modules are not as reliable as the factory GM ones. Unfortunately, they are kinda homely looking and not real traditional. .
The Jalopy Journal
