Technical Just bought a 400, what to do with the heads...?

Hey guys, thanks for having me on the forum. I have a Chevy specific question. As the ***le says I just bought a 400 sbc for the hot rod I'm building. I'm planning on putting vortec heads on it because they're cheap and plentiful. I'm wondering though, what should I do with the old 400 heads? Are they worth anything more than s****? They probably flow pretty well but the chambers are huge. This engine originally came from a 1974 caprice with 175 hp..

Thanks for any advice.

Mike

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remember to add the steam holes for 400's

 

What he^^^^^said!!!!!!!
And buy new 400 head gaskets..

 

When you get the new head gaskets lay them on your old heads to identify where the steam holes are and mark them. Then take the gaskets and lay them on your new heads so you know where to drill the steam holes. You can also use the old heads to check depth of steam holes, don't drill the new heads to deep.

 

Stock 400 heads are good for boat anchors...

 

Agree

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I love to hear all this boat anchor talk. Mike by all means spend unnecessary money to get your hot rod .3ths of a sec. in a bracket racing world. Or maybe your car will never see the track, all the more reason to contribute to our national economy. Or maybe you do have a boat and need an anchor. I had a 36 Willys PU with a stock block, crank, pistons, and heads 72 400 SBC Isky Z-30 solid lifter cam and Edelbrock Torker, Holly 700cfm (too big) and 4.11 gears and went 11.8 @116 with Goodyear 9" slicks. THINK about your end goal before spending money on things that won't get you what you want.

Pat

 

I know about the steam holes, I've done some research on that. Pat I'm ***uming your 400 has stock heads then, do you know what casting number they are? I'm building an hd hot rod and wanted something with good torque to get it moving, definitely not autocrossing or racing it.. if I can make good power with a cam and intake I'd be glad to reuse the heads. How much did that Willy's weigh?

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1934coupe it is many times cheaper to buy the vortek heads rather than do a valve job on the old heads.
Yes the old heads will work for street use, but this is a hot rod site, and replacing heads with better ones is as traditional as it gets.

 

My 36 Willys was around #2600 and the motor went in my 40 Willys that weighed in around #2800 both all steel, full interiors the 40 had A/C. I ran reg. pump gas. The motor had Edelbrock finned aluminum valve covers (not center bolt non traditional hot rod). A valve job isn't $500. and a pair of vortec new I'm sure is close to that. If you go with a cam and kit it takes the springs out of the cost equation then add in cost for drilling steam holes. I have to go out now will be back tonight.

Pat

 

To answer your original question - no, the stock heads really aren't worth anything.

You're talking about getting a pair of junkyard Vortec heads, right? So we can ***ume that they'd need a valve job, guides and resurfacing too, same as your stock heads. Sure, they flow better that the stockers, but as Pat said, what do you really want to do with the car? What's the plan for the rest of the motor? Is it a running motor that you're leaving alone and just bumping the compression with smaller chamber heads? Or is the motor coming apart too, and the heads are part of a bigger build plan? I'll resist the urge to comment on how ugly center bolt valve covers are...

I'm building a 400 too, and I'm using the stock heads for now. The guides are tight, valves are in good shape. Going to save the money I would have spent on recon-ing the stock heads (or doing a semi upgrade to a slightly better casting) and put it towards a good pair of Dart heads some time in the future. Personally, I prefer to have a running and driving project I can upgrade when time and funds allow, instead of a pile of parts that might take years to come together - or not.

 

My plan is to throw new pistons and bearings in it. It doesn't have much ring ridge so I haven't decided if I'll have it bored out a little or just ball hone it and save the money. Yes the vortecs will come from the junkyard. I would like to put a mild cam in it that won't exceed the lift capacity of the vortecs, but if a cam that small would make similar power with stock heads then I won't even bother, your thoughts?

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I don't spend money on old heads anymore, unless the cl*** demands them. A complete valve job, guides, seals, resurface, all done is half way to new good flowing aluminum heads. Machine work is getting expensive. Check into the price of new heads, iron or aluminum, some good deals out there.

 

Badvolvo makes a good point - You can grab a pair of Iron Eagles these days for $700, ready to go out of the box. If you can get away with a minimum of work to either sets of heads (new seals, lapping the valves) then either would be a good way to get the project going. If they need to be completely redone, then you're money (and time) ahead to go new. Something to also consider - check your local CL. Lots of guys are upgrading to new iron or aluminum heads and don't have anything to do with a good stock heads that probably need no machine work, and you can have them for a song.

Similar power is sorta subjective - the Vortecs flow better than the stockers, but neither are going to blow you away. My guess is that a warmed over 400 with a decent cam in a light car will be plenty impressive with either set of heads, at least to start. Then if you get the itch to get more out of it, there are plenty of good options in both iron and aluminum heads these days. Those center bolt valve covers just make me think I'm looking under the hood of an IROC...

 

In my opinion, the best thing that will perk up a 400 for a hot rod engine is changing the connecting rod length. For a street engine, I prefer a 5.7" rod over a 6" rod since the 5.7" rod keeps the wrist pin hole below the rings package. So if you are going to buy pistons anyway, buy a set for use with a 5.7" rod. Then you are talking just the additional cost of a set of rods. New **** or even recons are not that expensive. Only issue to speak of is checking rod bolt clearance on camshaft. If you use stock type rods with bolts and nuts, some clear and some need a minor grind on the rod bolt head. If using aftermarket rods with threaded bolt from the bottom, no issues.

 

Yes, everyone was slapping Vortec heads on back in the day. As has been said, it might cost less than having the original heads reworked.

 

TimCT, what's wrong with an IROC?!? Haha I actually really like those cars... thanks everyone for the great advice, looks like I've got some thinking to do. I'll be sure to check CL and see what's out there too. Thanks again!

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The only thing I liked about the '87-'88 iroc was the bright metallic blue paint....

 

Only one set of the steam holes are straight. The others are at an angle. Check your old ones to get the angle correct before you drill. I dit it using the gaskets as a pattern and a level protractor for the angle... Never had a problem.
Not knocking others advice but I used 6-1/8" Elgin rods and zero-gap rings since I had to by Pistons anyway...
Plan your compression. I used the formula on United Machine KB piston website.

 

I'll take all those lazy open chamber 400 heads anyone wants to throw my way. The work real well on a zero decked 350 up motor that you are trying to keep in the 9 to 9.5:1 range. LOL

 

Good advice here on 400. It will likely need bored, if so 5.7 rod and matching piston. Id look at other heads. Better flow for same $. If you own a machine shop you can make the stock heads flow and swap valves. If youre paying a machine shop there better options.

I have a pile of 882 and 441 heads, central IL. The "best of the worst" 70's smogger heads. Used to sell them in bulk to a guy that prepped them for restricted cl*** circle track. They changed heads in the cl***, cant give them away. Except to the s****per.

 

Concerning the Vortec heads; just remember, they take a different intake manifold and valve covers, have limited lift with the stock springs, and are crack prone. If you really just don't want to mess with the stock 400 heads, then go with aftermarket heads like has already been mentioned. Aftermarket Vortecs will take either style intake manifold or valve covers. And, Vortec heads are't what we'd call "traditional". I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Butch just to muddy up the waters and because I know you got thick skin.

They actually made Vortech heads that were perimeter bolt heads and will take standard rocker covers. I think that they were one year only and were truck heads as opposed to car heads. The only reason I know this is that we have a set.

 

The car I'm building definitely isn't traditional so the valve cover bolts don't bother me much. However I did check CL and found a set of double hump 462 heads with newer valves only a few miles away for $300...

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Leave it alone and slap a blower on it. you will instantly overcome any flow issues.

 

P-N-Bnr; the confusing about trucks, is they call the ENGINES (6, SBC, and BBC) "VORTECS" and NOT taking the HEADS into consideration. So Vortec engine that "might" have Vortec heads. The ONLY way to ID Vortec heads is by the casting numbers or combustion chamber shape. Post up your casting numbers for those heads you have; I have never heard of that. Like I said, confusing; LT-1 or LT1 (completely different engines), the LS6 and LS7 BBC engines of the 70's, and now we have LS engines that are "small blocks" (?????). I know the aftermarket "Vortec" heads can take both style intakes and both style rocker covers. Makes my head hurt!
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Must be them young engineers that got away with it....
That's what I think.....

 

I have a set of 305 heads casting # 14022601 casting date D 02 5 and d 17 5. 1985 heads with perimeter valve cover bolts and early style intake manifold bolts, 53 cc chambers. Not bragging or anything just saying this head was made.

Pat

 

The engine in my truck is a 400 that was built over 20 years ago. It has stock low compression dished pistons and stock heads. I added a thumper cam, holley carburetor, headers, and a performer intake. It has ran a best of 13.1 but I rarely push it that hard anymore. I have been running on the strip a couple of times a year for at least the last 15 years. Mostly it is street driven but when I do run it on the drag strip, I drive it there, and home. My only failure has been a camshaft and lifters caused by oil lacking the zinc additive.

I am not engine builder. I just wanted to state my experiences with this engine. If anything happens to this one, I will build another one just like it.

John

 

"Vortec" heads are only 96-01 5.7 truck heads other engines were called vortec but they are swirl port truck heads
There are 2 different casting # 062 the better exhaust flow and 906
They are basically lt1 aluminum heads in cast iron form for standard coolant flow applications

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