Steering column seal ideas?

I'm using a 53-ish Ford truck automatic steering column. I like the seperate shift tube exposed above the column with the platic gear indicator. (looks old timey) It will use a U joint to continue down to a Vega box.

I'm looking for ideas for the seal where it passes through the 32 firewall/floor boards. A single tube is easy. The dual tube setup complicates it. To make it worse the column hits on the toe board with the shift tube going through the vertical firewall. What did Ford use at the floor on a 51-53 car or truck?

While we are at it...I will need a bearing for the 1 3/4" tube at the bottom. Someone suggested a 4 bar type bushing. What keeps the shaft from sliding out the bottom besides the wheel? This column was never designed to work with U joints. I have a split cone on one of my shafts. I may have to weld it to the shaft to support the shaft from the upper bearing.

Got any ideas?

 

Tommy, you should be able to find a re-pro column/floor rubber seal at the rubber seal places.

As far as using something at the bottom end to help retain the shaft, take a look at the Vega box install question that Draglink SCC just posted.
I left a pic on there of a Vega box etc.
Look close at the bottom end of the column and you'll see a bearing mount that slips into the .120 wall 1 5/8" OD aluminum column jacket. A sealed ball bearing goes in that and if you look real close you can see a collar, maybe 1/4" thick - made of stainless here, but the one in the 32 is mild steel. The collar is drilled and tapped every 120 degrees for a 10-32 cup point allen set screw.

It's a simple system, but it works well and has never given any trouble on the 40,000 miles it's been on the 32.

If need be, I may have a close up of the collar.
Lemme know....

 

For the seal where you go through the toeboard/firewall get a piece of rubber (like innertube) about 1/8 inch thick.
Cut a whole in it for the colum and shiftrod/tube to pass through. and cut a piece of plate to match (18 - 22 gauge will suffice) bend it where toe board hits the firewall. You will probably have to relieve the holes a little now.
Sandwich the rubber between the toeboard/firewall and the plate. Bolt the plate down. Seal.
I think if I'm not mistaken the steering colum on the F-100 ('53 truck, pre '53 F-1) passed through the toe board and not the toeboard and firewall both.

 

If I understand you right, the 1/4" collar holds the bearing into the tube.

I may be over engineering this. It seems to me that there should be some kind of support for the wheel and shaft taking the weight off the U joints. If you take the column and the u joint shaft assembly out, will the shaft slide out the bottom of the tube when the wheel is removed? (mine will)

If that's the case, then you would set the wheel to hub clearance with the U joint splines at the bottom after everything is installed. Then lock the retainer ring to hold the lower bearing. Am I picturing this right?

 

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If I understand you right, the 1/4" collar holds the bearing into the tube.



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Right.

I forgot to mention there is an identical collar up high that keeps the steering shaft from sliding down in.

Here's a pic that may help.
The Bearing is 3/4" ID and I think 1 3/4" OD.
The aluminum bearing adapters are made with a short spigot on them. The spigot slides down into the column jacket, the bearing goes in, the shaft is slid in and set where you want it to stick out, then the three setscrew collar is installed and tightened.
Then, if you disassemble the bottom end the upper end of the shaft stays where you want.

The strange looking splined end is part of the quick-release steering wheel mechanism.

Once the dust settles and you have everything where you want it, you may want to do what I did.
Which was, JB Weld the upper bearing adapter into the 1 5/8" OD aluminum column jacket tube.
The lower bearing adapter is glued in with clear silicon so that disassembly is possible.
If you don't glue them in, they will wear loose after a couple of years and have a bit of slop between bearing adapter and inner ID of the column jacket.

If that's confusing and you're in no rush I should have a "Build Your Own Aluminum Steering Column" in the FSRA newsletter this month.

 

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Right.

I forgot to mention there is an identical collar up high that keeps the steering shaft from sliding down in.



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Then we agree there needs to be a shaft retainer above the upper bearing inside the turn signal housing. (very tight)

The original system used a sliding cone on the shaft to center it in the upper bearing. It used a spring under the wheel to force the cone (inner race) into the bearing centering the shaft. I may have to weld the cone to the shaft at the correct location and then make a retainer for the bottom bearing as you suggested.

The turn signal bell doesn't separate from the tube so I cant get down in there to tighten set screws.



P&B.. I've made seals like that for pedal seals. I may have to put the seal on the 2 tubes before the column is assembled and then slide it down to the floor after installation. It gets confusing trying to work out all the potential bugs before hand. I could have used a pregnant tilt column and wrapped the whole bottom with carpet. Yeah right!! I think the extra effort will be worth it.

 

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Then we agree there needs to be a shaft retainer above the upper bearing inside the turn signal housing. (very tight)


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Right again although the reference to "tight" is, it's a tight area to work within? Or the shaft retainer needs to be tight?

The three cup screws lock the retainer into place pretty well and I've never had a retainer slip.
If the upper retainer did slip, it's not going far cuz there's only a few thousandths clearance before the underside of the upper splined gizmo hits the bearing.
Or rather, hits the retainer and the retainer has a shoulder on it, same size as the outer OD of the bearings inner race so there wouldn't be a drag problem.
The only way you'd know it slipped would be you could pull up on the steering wheel and feel play where there should be none.
If both retainers slipped - doubtful - and if there were more than a few thousandths available for the column to slide down, things would still stay together by dint of the U-joint angles and intermediate shaft limiting travel.

I'll see if I can get a photo scanned in that shows a close up of the bearing retainer and post it in a few hours.

 

Yeah tight as in no room. You can see the end of the split cone/inner-race inside the bearing. I might be able to make a retainer like you discrbe. It'll give me an excuse to play with the lathe.

 

Looks like getting an allen wrench down in there to tighten things up could be tough.
Unless the shaft will slide up so you could place the bearing retainer where you wanted it and then tighten things down.

Looks like there's room in there for a bushing - perhaps with step if necessary - and maybe JB Welding it in place would do it.

Or ... actually welding the bushing in.
A couple rosette welds ought to do it ... provided the shaft comes up for access.

With JB you could do it in place.

 

I spent most of yesterday and today rebuilding the column.
.

I had to repair the shift detent system by building up the worn parts with weld and then grinding and fileing them back to their original size. The turn signal cancel system wanted to be a PITA but I licked it. I used a 57 car column for parts. I used several parts from the 57 column. The T.S. switch is the same. I had to take 1 1/2 inches out of the middle of the 2 tubes. The upper bearing problem was solved with a simple spacer sleeve between the bearing and the Grant hub. The lower bearing was solved by welding the top of the 57 tube (with it's bearing) to the bottom of the 53 tube.

It's a terrible picture but I'm very pleased with the results. Some old hot rodder paid big bucks to have the whole thing chromed. It has some patina but still looks very nice. If they don't repo the plastic gear indicator, I'll have to make one. Now I can finalize it's location and modify the firewall to adapt a seal. I could have bought an Ididit column but I like mine better.

 

Tommy, What if you took two pieces of sheet metal, say 3"x6" each, put a offset flange on the 6" side of one of them so the other one overlaps it. Clamp them on a piece of plywood with them overlapped and cut two holes in them with holesaws to match you tube dia. then seperate them and square up the leading edges of both pieces and install coming from either side of the column. You can knife cut a piece of small vacumn line and wrap around the holes for a tight seal.

 

I will have to use some kind of plate to mount the column at the toe board. I'll know more tomorrow. I can set up the final location. The column goes trough the angled toe board but the shift tube goes through the vertical firewall. With the column in I can sit on a bucket and make vrooom-vrooom noises.

 

I don't go through the hassle of making and installing an upper lock collar on mine... I mark the shaft just above the split cone and yank the shaft back out to use my die grinder and a 1/32nd disc to cut a groove around the shaft. Work slowly and don't go too deep. Reassemble and use a snap ring in the groove. Adjust end play with the lower collar...done!

 

Excellent idea Rocky. I'm using parts and pieces from a few columns. One of them had a thick brass sleeve about 2" long. I took 3/8" of the end for a perfect fit between the Grant hub and the column bell. I don't think set screws are necessary.

 

One thought I had about going through the toe board if the column is not at a 90 degree angle there is to make an angled rectangular aluminum plate to bolt that end down.
I made such a plate for the firewall of the 32 and it works well.
Quarter inch aluminum, drill 4 holes at a 90 for bolting on.
Set your adjustable angle drill press vise - assuming you have one and if not, they're not expensive - and drill a guide hole where the center of the large hole goes. (It can be a good idea to leave the 1/4" plate overly long and cut it to size later.)
The guide hole drills ok with a 1/4" bit provided it's sharp and you take your time getting started.

Use a hole saw to bore the hole at an angle.
Slow speed and the pilot drill replaced with a piece of 1/4" rod makes it easy.

A couple or four tacks on the backside of the aluminum plate to the aluminum column does it.
If you make the toe board plate out of aluminum and fit the column part of it snugly, you shouldn't have any rattling problems.
Then you could paint the aluminum if desired.
Making it out of 1/8" steel would be just about as easy.

You can just barely see the top part of the plate in question in the pic.
Inside the cockpit would have worked ok, but I put it outside. The carpet has a bound piece of vinyl around the column hole and it looks ok.

Not sure if that's what you're looking for toe board-wise, but there ya go....

 

I think I may have to make a "bump out" in the base of the firewall so that both tubes pass through the same plane (the toe board). If there is enough metal for the pilot hole, I'll use your idea to hole saw the relief in the firewall bottom.

The column was too long and the shifting arm hit on the motor. It made it difficult to eye ball the situation. The solution will become more clear when I can get the final location.

I appreciate the feed back guys. You run into weird problems when you use weird parts but that's what I like. Thanks