If the engine is the original in the car from the factory The serial no is the same as the one on the frame ? True or false
True. The serial number was stamped into the engine/transmission ***embly when it p***ed final inspection. The frame was stamped with the number on the engine when it was installed into the frame on the ***embly line. Charlie Stephens
does anybody have a picture of the number on the frame as I've had a lot of model A's in and out of the shop and never seen one at all stamped on the frame just the block
...and frequently is just an area of rust pits where crud was trapped between body and frame! Engine # is datable, but refers only to completion of the engine/trans ***embly. Car date could be very close if the car was ***embled at a Michigan plant, or long after if the engine was shipped off to the Buenos Aires plant or byp***ed in a dark corner of the loading dock.
A engines were manufactured at the Rouge plant, in Canada, and after a couple of years in England. I don't think Germany was making engines yet. USA and most of the world's ***embly plants got engines made and numbered at the Rouge, shipped out to something like 30 ***embly plants. Canadian engines supplied most of the Empire except England itself, which used blocks of serial numbers issued from the Rouge...I think that's correct. Russia later on built its own A's and AA's for a long time, using B engines when those came out. Any WWII Russian front book will show lots of AA based trucks and occasionally a car. England also produced AA's for several years after '31.
sometimes you need to remove drivers side front fender, and apron... I have also seen same numbers stamped in center cross member..
The frame number on the '31 5 window coupe I had in high school was completely hidden by the body. Only was visible when I removed the body. Left side of the frame under the front cowl.
Haven't you been reading this post? If the engine # matches the frame # it is original to that ch***is. Otherwise, not original. Pretty simple. I once had a car that was all original, except the engine had been replaced. Then later the ch***is was replaced. And even later the body was replaced. But it was still an all original car.
I couldn't find or read mind so I just used the engine number. If the engine number works and you get you plates what difference does it make? Sent from my iPad using H.A.M.B.
Sorta like...."I'm proud to have this, it's my Grandfather's axe, although the handle was replaced numerous times and the head was replaced once" Lynn
I ***ume you have been reading the posts and are asking how, other than lifting the body to see the serial number on the frame, could you be sure it was the original engine. In answer to that question, not exactly. You could date the vehicle with other features. If the engine was built after the vehicle it wouldn't be the original engine. If the engine was built too far before the vehicle it is probably not the original engine. Of course this ***umes the engine didn't get held in a warehouse somewhere or some other non-standard situation. Another point of trivia is that the judging standards for the two national Model A clubs say to allow up to 3 months for the engine to be installed in the vehicle. Charlie Stephens
Here is the number stamped into a frame I had. I haven't found anyone that could explain the "X" in the number but it appears to be original. I am sure the person that stamped the "X" had a reason. This is in the location described in the previous posts and would have been hidden by the body. Charlie Stephens
I have had [144] model A bodies... 1/2 body or more... all with ch***is had the #s under the left subfloor extension… but... I got this body, on stock ch***is, from texas… now on my home made ch***is. the #s were under the left door about 1/2 way back... only #s I have ever seen there.
Ha . I just watched "Enemy at the Gates" again and the model As in Russia now make sense. Not just Hollywood guff.
Thank you. The OP didn't say he had an original engine. He said IF you have an original engine, WILL it match the frame number. If they match then it's the original engine. My question was, if you haven't yet considered removing enough body parts to check the frame number, how can you be sure you have an original engine to make it worth the bother? Perhaps I read too much into it. On my '31A, not the original engine, likely the original frame, but boxed. The Commonwealth of PA vacated everything and issued me a new VIN plate to fasten on the firewall. Curious.
Another point of trivia is that the judging standards for the two national Model A clubs say to allow up to 3 months for the engine to be installed in the vehicle. Charlie Stephens[/QUOTE] Are we talking about getting a traditional Hot Rot registered through DMV or getting judged for authenticity at Pebble Beach or Hersey Park? Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
My '31 coupe had the number on the top of the driver's rail about 6" behind the cowl foot. Masked it off when I painted the frame and put a clear over it. Made a brake master access panel that when removed just barely shows the stamping. It the panel wasn't there, the body and splash would have to be removed to see it. Engine stamping didn't match the frame. CHP VIN verifier wouldn't use the engine number, had to pull it all down to bare frame before they would ***le it.
Thanks for the answers guys Now the nightmare begins ! my car is almost done newly built frame original engine laying behind the barn car now with a different motor.Now according to the state of Mn I have to trailer it to a inspection center , and try to get a ***le and get it registered Got a lot of time and bucks tied up Hope this goes well ....My explanation from the DMV To verify no parts were stolen Will never buy another car without a ***le.... Too much mental anquish for my old body and mind Gene , suburb of Mpls/ St Paul Minnesota
The Russian A based vehicles were not technically Fords or A's...Ford sold them all the tooling and turned'em loose, as far as I know. There was a fair amount of development...AA's with two rear axles, Model B engines, and a four-wheel drive A based "Jeep" sort of vehicle. They were branded "GAZ," which I think was an acronym for some sort of heathen gibberish. Ford Parts Obsolete imported a number of brand new Russian engines somehow in the 1970's...I remember drooling over the ads in Hemmings. Rumors abound of military warehouses full of new Model B replacement engines stored in drums of oil.
Soooo.... If you buy a model A without an original engine, how do you verify the ***le VIN matches the car without raising the body? If you get into an accident how does the insurance adjuster verify the vehicle is said car without raising the body?
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