Unusual engine photos

Andy, yes they were SOHC as were most of Packard engines for aircraft and marine use. The engines used in the race cars of the teens (299 at Indy and 905 for the land speed records at Daytona) were SOHC Liberty engines. The Liberty engines were a bit outdated by the mid to late 20s and the 2500 in both aircraft and marine was an updated engine.

Some of the Liberty 1650 cubic inch 12s are used in vintage boats today. I owned one and sold it to a guy that was going to put it in a boat. They are unbelievably loud at speed.

 

Jim- thanks for the flashback ! One of my nephews lived at the Gar Wood Mansion back in the day. Buncha crazy hippies !

 

khead-it was a most impressive place. I remember going over small bridges to get there back in the 60s. The place was incredible. It was taken over by hippies and there were some knock down drag out parties there that I have heard. All gone today and there are condos I believe. Here is a picture that I hope does not get deleted. Also a picture of Miss America X at speed. I believe he ran 132 mph in the 33 Harmsworth race.

 

Looks like a shortened small block chevy?

 

Something from Mickey Thompson.

 

I recall seeing a Gar Wood boat at Harrah's in 1978. I think it was an engine-less shell. Which one was that?

 

There are a few Gar Wood boats but only three Miss America boats that I know of, VIII, IX and X. I know that IX was a hull before being restored and I have never seen VII but only read of the lawsuit that took place in the Pacific Northwest. I thought Harold Mistele had IX prior to 78 though. I saw a number of Gar Wood boats at Lake Tahoe (a quake on the lake type show) one time but some may have been recreations. I enjoyed the noise they made and did not ask too many questions.

 

I forgot to mention that I remembered it because it had space for four engines. I thought I had a photo of it but can't find it among those I still have.

 

Whats so "Unusual" about this? Looks pretty normal to me.

 

Sesco Midget motor. They started out cutting up V8s. Later they cast blocks

 

This one was in Hot Rod magazine a while back.
Not an unusual engine, but it's in an unusual place,




Mike

 

Not so shiny XK Jag 3-1/2 Litre in my '52 MKVII. Very sweet, smooth.


Check out the ceramic coated exhaust manifolds:

 

To me the designation 3 1/2 litre in Jaguars usually refers to the older pushrod ohv engines. Being an XK engine I presume this is a 3.4?

 

The reason with this F head conversion engine that the exhaust valves were the overhead was to get the exhaust gasses out of the block on this chronically overheating engine.

Many other early F head conversions also put the exhaust overhead even though there was a choice. I think some early incorrect theory was the exhaust needed to breathe better than the intake.

 

Supercharged FRAZERNASH, that's all the information I have.

 

Hispano-Suiza Overhead Cam 4 clylinder engine. Built using half of their V-8 engine.

 

Hispano-Suiza Overhead Cam V-8

 

Mercedes-Benz W154

I always wondered what impact, positive, or negative, the great depression and WWII had on car development

 

1927 Bugatti T37A

 

Not so sure on WWII but WWI had a large effect on racing development IMO-not so sure on car development overall. When Indy started running cars in 1911 they were stock cars with the fenders removed in some instances. When AAA switched to the 300 cubic inch limitation for 1915, stock cars were no more. Virtually every car in 1915 big time auto racing were overhead cam cars, many from across the pond of course. In Europe, there were team cars from manufacturers all with OHC, such as Peugeot, Mercedes, Delage, Sunbeam and Schneider (one of my favorites as it was the engine in the Schneiders that I believe Harry Miller copied for his first OHC-the 289 four SOHC). Some of these cars were shipped to the US right after the outbreak of the war following the French Grand Prix at Lyons in 1914. Those cars were pretty much copied from one maker to another in one form or another and in the US some had a field day in copying the ideas from across the pond. During the 300 inch era (1915-1919) auto racing had been severely cut back due to the war but still some events were held (Indy was suspended but they did hold a shortened race in 1916 although it was a 300 mile event by edict and no Indy race in 1917 or 1918). When we entered the war in the way of material support and then troops dating to 1916, a lot of normal car production ceased and automotive plants made vehicles and planes and supplies for war. So of course normal car development pretty much came to a halt.

The racing engine development though flourished in a sense since development for aero pushed engineers towards OHC principles and supercharging for aero and even turbo charging for aero. The turbo charging was developed (not to an exact certainty of course) by Sherbondy and he called it exhaust driven supercharging. The SOHC Mercedes that took the top spot at Indy in 1915 was basically an adapted aero engine and some of the other designs owed a bit of their DNA to the same principles (such as Packard and their Liberty aircraft engines and the smaller versions they made specifically for auto racing such as the 299 that ran at Indy in 1919 and the 905 cubic inch liberty that ran and set records at Daytona beach early in 1919).

Sunbeam had pretty much copied the GP Peugeot engine and in this country Wisconsin did the same when Bob Burman gave them the task of casting some new castings for his Peugeot. Harry Miller of course had the task of rebuilding Burman’s Peugeot (and had two blocks cast IMO) and studied the desmodromic valve gear and bottom end of course (while Bob sued Wisconsin in court to no avail). Miller most likely studied the best of the European designs although I believe he chose the Schneider SOHC (designed by Gratien Michaux who sadly had been given little credit for all of his ideas and development). The Duesenberg brothers of course benefitted as well from aero development and built some great OHC cars as well. Then of course the brothers Chevrolet studied and built their SOHC and DOHC engines and became the first to win back to back at Indy (1920 and 1921).

Even the Indianapolis Motor Speedway built their own racecars that were pretty much a virtual copy of the GP Peugeots and they called them Premiers.

Long story short there were some great race cars and great race car development that came as a direct result of the great war (WWI) IMO. Passenger car development maybe not so much but I would guess the auto engineers played catch up but the racing world benefitted in a real sense IMO.

I believe this picture is of a 1913 Peugeot with a 3 liter as opposed to the allowed near 5 liters they already had in the works.



The top three fiinishers at the French Grand Prix just prior to war-one of the cars was shipped to the US and won the 1915 Indy 500 with De Palma at the wheel.

The aero SOHC four in the 1914 GP Mercedes-I believe this is De Palma's engine.


The Wisconsin engine as designed in one of its forms.

The first Miller engine, as opposed to a rebuilt motor (Burman's Peugeot), the iron four 289 SOHC.

Some of the internal components of Miller's SOHC.

Michaux' designs in his GP Schneider that he patented and are remarkably similar to what Miller employed in his first design.


Louis Chevrolet's 1916 SOHC four.

 

To take one manufacturer such as Packard here is their aero engine development with the Liberty aircraft engines that they designed as part and parcel of WWI.


The first engine the 299 was built specifically to go racing IMO (and led the Indy 500 for pretty much the first half of the race in 1919-finished in 6th after a lengthy pit stop top replace a frozen right front wheel bearing). The second (and third) were 905 cubic inch engines and one example was used for records, including the land speed record at Daytona in 1919.

Were it not for WWI I am not sure how these or if these would have been developed. The number one engine is sitting in my shop so I am partial and thankful it was developed.

 

RE: WW II
The German Luftwaffe pioneered Nitrous Oxide in its piston powered aircraft.

 

Jim.............thanks for the Liberty engine info........and if its not a rude question........how do you come to have the number one engine in your shop?............lol.............andyd..

 

Yeah Jim, what he said^^^^^

 

Yeah Jim

 

Long story but I was into drag cars as a teenager and my grandfather saw this Corvette drag car with stack injection and it reminded him of when he worked on the race cars at Packard in the teens (the 299 Packard with the raised intake manifold). My grandfather was a car collector dating back to long before I was born but I had no idea he had any history with race cars. He had experience with engine vibration issues with Chalmers and went to work for Packard in 1913 and ended up working on engines as an engine tester in the experimental department. He ended up working on a number of engines of course and worked on removing De Palma's Indy winning Mercedes engine, which was rebuilt in the Packard experimental department three times that I know of starting in 1914-1916. He also worked on two Packard racers with his friend Carl Smith (they worked in teams in the department, and I have since met Carl's great grandson through the HAMB). The Packards were twin six racers (as opposed to the 299 which is a 12 and was never called a Twin Six) and they were built right about the time that they were coming out with the new Twin Six passenger car (a V12 engine). My grandfather and Carl worked on the engines as they were having teething issues with the bottom end. Packard did not want bad press so they changed the hoods on the racers to resemble the 299 which they had no issues with and did not represent their new car line.

Due to the war and the great effort that was put into the Liberty aircraft engines, the twin six racers were put in the back of the shop under tarps. Packard did race the 299 in 1917-1918 (much of it with De Palma owning the car as they instituted a racing ban in 1916). Packard was not really fooling too many people though as they built their own racing garage at Sheepshead Bay New York (two mile board speedway).

I always wanted to find one of the Twin Six racers and we talked about them until the day he died. Nine months after he died in 1981, I was at a car show and Terry Martin who had restored the Packard Old Pacific coast to coast car was giving a speech and I waited until he exited the stage, introduced myself and asked if he knew where any of the old Packard racers were and he told me who owned the 299 engine and the few parts left of the car. I went home and called the owner, Brad Skinner who said he would sell me the 299 stuff and I sent him a bank wire the next day.

As to the Packard Twin Six racers I still asked and researched like crazy but came up with nothing. Packard "experts" told me I was crazy-there were no such cars. Then out of the blue in like the year 2000, Greg Dawson from Indianapolis called me and said he heard I knew something of Packard racers and he just bought a Packard Twin Six racer that was found in the jungle in South America and he was having it shipped to this country and would I like to inspect it after it was unloaded from the shipping container. During our conversation he faxed me a picture of the car and I damn near fell out of my chair as what my grandfather had told me rang true-that they made it look like the 299. The 299 hood was distinctive and was made that way to make room for the OHC valvetrain-so they had blisters on the hood. The Twin Six racers did not need such a hood but the hood was almost a dead ringer (the hood on the Twin Six racer is actually a bit longer and the leading edge of the main blister is different-very close though). The real giveaway to the car upon its return was the original tag still affixed to the frame with Packard the experimental department name and information. Greg and I became great friends, the car was restored and we toured the country with the car-great fun. The engine I have is number one-there was a number two built and it went to Europe and raced against the likes of Enzo Ferrari. It no longer exists. The engine has been written about in a few publications by Simon Moore and Valerio Morreti, as it appears to have been the inspiration for the Ferrari V12.

The 299 was the first actual AAA race car to lap the Indy Motor Speedway at over 100mph (August 2, 1916), match raced in 1917 against Barney Oldfield and Louis Chevrolet, and set a few world and track records. It led the Indy 500 for the first half of the race and raced for the rest of the year (at least until autumn) when it threw a rod. My engine has a new crankcase and the engine was put in the Packard headquarters main showroom from 1920 until they went out of business in the 50s. From there it went to the Studebaker Packard museum and then went to a high school to teach students to rebuild engines and then was traded for a couple of small block Chevys. It was put in a trailer and was started in the pits at Indy during the 60s and was bought by Brad Skinner a Packard collector and then myself.

If I can get my act together I hope someday to recreate the car. Working on a project now to give me the seed money to do it. Hopefully will get it done but I still enjoy having it in my shop-see it every day and it never fails to
impress.

Engine as it is today with the original radiator that was on the car in 1916 (original).



On the front row at Indy in 1919-#4 on the outside, with a new body.

The 1917 livery with the original body as it match raced in 1917.

The Packard racer with the Twin Six at Meadowbrook Concours in 2006ish.


Got to meet some great people with the car. Talked to Jay Leno a number of times at the 2005 Pebble Beach show. Greg is on Jay's right and me on Jay's left. Greg had me present the car to the judges which was fun as I am a fanatic on the car. Good memories of the car and brings a smile that my grandfather worked on the car over 100 years ago.

 

Curtis Model V 160 HP

 

I think this is what is called a W24, not sure of the manufacturer.

 

So, Jim.........three small block chevs is an even trade for the engine?.......four?...........lol.............I'll pay the freight?........lol.........wow, this is what the HAMB is about..........I'm seriously honoured to be speaking(in a sense) to someone with the knowledge and links to this history....... thank you............the 299 engines intake system?........is there a carby at the firewall or cam drive end that feeds underneath the intake into the middle of the plenum?...........I've never seen any vintage or veteran in this case, engine with anything like that intake setup...........puts the idea of tunnel rams in the 1960's in their place......lol...............amazing.............andyd