Here's a photo of John C***aubon's '50 Shoebox (built by Clarkaiser Customs) on the gr*** at the '58 NHRA Nats: photo by Tom Medley
Brian @B*** recently acquired '58 Nats entry #97 ... the Miller Morriss Deuce Roadster: NOTE: Brian plans to return the car to its '50s B/STR glory! ... including a Hilborn injected 265ci SBC.
Just a bump of an old thread ... 'cuz I spent a couple hours fixing all my posts with images hosted on Photobucket ... and replaced them with higher rez versions of the images.
My brother, our friend, and I all went to the Oklahoma City 1958 NHRA Nationals. These are just a couple photos from that weekend. I am in the striped shirt. We left Little Rock Saturday morning and snapped this photo in Oklahoma before arriving. We got there after lunch, and this was the first photo we took. I was 16 years old, and this was my first major drag race to attend.
Good to see an old photo of the Miller Morris roadster..I sold him many parts back in the late 50s early 60s from my avatar...Custom Automotive Dallas,Texas
I'm ***uming that is your car with The front wheels photochopped in if so that thing is bad*** and honestly if it had some painted steelies on the front it would be just as bad*** it has a great stance and of course engine choice is fantastic Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Hey Hemi 32, NICE OLD DRAG RACING THREAD...Not to take anything away from your 57-58 drag racing thread, but the following reply is to clear up or help another question about those early drag racing days and rules. Jnaki Hey D, Your sedan looks cool, but if your Hemi were moved several inches back, then it would be in the Altered cl*** back in 1958-59. With an engine set back, open individual headers, it would have been relegated to the Altered Cl*** compe***ion. There were many street legal gas coupes racing in those cl***es. But, if they did something to not qualify for the Gas Coupe/Sedan cl***, they were labeled for the Altered cl***. The Altered rules were specific, but the local dragstrips put legal street Gas Coupes/Sedans in those cl***es if they failed one inspection or another in their own cl***. No interior, altered, only one bucket seat, altered, individual exhaust pipes without collectors removed, altered...etc. The list is long. The altered cl*** engine set back would not have been great for comfortable street driving in any coupe or sedan. We had just taken out the 2nd bucket seat in our 40 Willys Coupe for some floor repair and construction. Upon inspection, they told us C/Altered, not C/gas. So, I had to drive home to get the other bucket seat to install and qualify for the C/Gas cl*** racing at Lions. There were skinny Halibrands on the fronts of gas coupes and sedans in 1960 as they began to get popular. Our plans for the front wheels of our 671 SBC 40 Willys Coupe were skinny slot Halibrands along with huge slots in the rear and M&H slicks. They were on order, ready for pick up in L.A. But, we had an explosion the week before and had to cancel all ready to pick up orders for our street legal Willys. Look at the Pittman/Edwards red Willys Coupe progression online. They went from steel red wheels to slot Halibrands within a year, during the 1959-60 So Cal racing season. BY 1961-64, most gas coupes had slot Halibrands as the wheel set up for drag racing. Then came the tons of copies for street use. Jnaki By 1964,Halibrands were the thing to use and race in the Gas Coupe/Sedan cl***es.
Hey D, You are correct, I over looked the fender thing. While looking at old Drag News articles, they always had rules for cl***es. Yes, fenders and other street legal items were required for racing. Your sedan would be in the Altered cl***. But, because your engine set back is not as far back as other "legal" altered sedans, you would be at a disadvantage in racing. Put those fenders back on and it would be a Gas Coupe/Sedan cl*** race car. As far as set backs, in the Gas Coupe/Sedan cl***, it was legal for a 10% setback. Most modified the firewall to accommodate the set back clearances. The Altered cl*** had up to 25% set backs which gave them more advantage than the modified Gas Coupes/Sedans that got plopped into those Altered cl***es with a few street legal errors or lack of street legal items. I would look up any old articles about the early rule books on drag racing. or look for some Drag News papers showing the Standard 1320 Cl*** Rules which most people followed until the NHRA got involved. Jnaki Current cl***ic drag racing cl*** ***ociations have their own rules for set ups. So you will have to see what is required. Back then, it wasn't performance to get into cl***es, but set ups vs horsepower. Street legal items or not... We started in B/gas with a 283 SBC with 6 Strombergs in our 40 Willys. Add a 671 supercharger and definitely in B/Gas. But, increase the C.I. to 292 and that was B/Gas for sure. Same weight of our Willys with both configurations. If the added weight is part of the structure of the car, like welded in steel plates over the rear axle in the trunk, then it was enough for us to drop down to the C/Gas cl*** to be more compe***ive. We were very compe***ive as our times and speed were close to the National Record for C/Gas in 1960.
Hey Hemi 32, Besides all of the information p***ed back and forth, your original thread of the Nationals in 58 started us off on the wanting to go to the Nationals, racing. Since it was held in OKC, it was a little closer to our house in So Cal. We may have even run across my wife's family, waaay back then. Ha ! But, we were just getting started and the only thing we knew about the Nationals, was what we read locally in the magazines and then Drag News. The thought of racing locally, traveling to other So Cal strips, then off on a journey through the Southwest was inviting for a couple of teenagers for a summer vacation. It never happened, but as teenagers we set our sights on the 1960 Nationals for sure, once we got our 671 SBC 40 Willys running well. Everything was falling into place for our cross country trip back to Detroit. But, things happen for a reason...and it did, in August, one month before the trip. It was a nice read of your original post and following posts. They started the memory banks churning again. Thanks, Jnaki
This is an awesome thread – it's been super helpful for the research I've been doing for my car. I had posted a couple of questions about the 58/59 era of hot rodding, and have now deleted them to keep the thread focused on the 58 NHRA Nationals. Thank you for taking the time to post this thread @HEMI32 and thank you @jnaki and @AHotRod for taking the time to answer my questions. Cheers!
Hey DR, Here is one last item I found in my files: It is a post from an old HAMB thread giving the Gas Coupe and Sedan cl*** breakdown. I wrote a reply to our resident HAMB Willys expert, Elgringo71 in 2016. Hello EG, Actually, Willys coupes were more prevalent at the strips. (within a two mile radius of our house in Long Beach, near Lions, there were 3 stock, Willys coupes to be found in overgrown gr***y yards and in backyards, not one sedan to be found anywhere.) The sedans gave more weight over the rear tires for traction, but for the most part, racers wanted lighter weight cars for the cl***es. If the combination of motor vs weight was brought in, as in the chart: Most simple set ups for cars was to put in a SBC and set up a simple stick transmission, trying to use most of the stock stuff to save on money spent. Then, later, the high, money, speed stuff came into play. Simple example: Racers just wanted a 283 sbc in a stock willys: 6 Strombergs / 283 SBC La Salle 3 speed 2500lbs/283 = 9.20 lbs/cubic inch equals B/Gas In our 40 Willys coupe the first time we built it with the 283, it fell into B/Gas vs Thompson, Pittman, Hirshfield...etc...that was a depressing outlook... for us newbies... So, our ET and speeds were closer to the racers in C/Gas, so we opted to be the best in that cl***. (with added weight) The sedans weighed more and there was the possibililty that they would drop easily into the C/Gas category with the same set up. (like the Weddle and Peters green Willys sedan. This clip is what everyone seems to think is the Weddle/Peters C/Gas record holder in 1959 Riverside Raceway.) Thanks, Jnaki models from 61-63 The 1961 version Pittman/Edwards at the U.S. NATIONALS (Halibrand slots) By 1964, KS Pittman was running a lightweight, 33 Willys coupe. with Halibrand slots... Thanks to this great thread from 1957-58 and the memories...hope the information helped. Obviously, these guys were inspirations to us young teenagers back in 58-60 to make our own Willys coupe run as fast as possible. Jnaki
Hey D, I knew I saw something about the 1958 rules somewhere on the HAMB. Ever since this topic was posted, I have been researching for this topic and copy of the 1958 rules posted by Rainier ******. Back in March of 2017, HAMB member, Rainier ****** posted a rule book: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...or-drag-coupster.1052761/page-2#post-11944646 A/SR MODEL A SURVIVOR DRAG COUPSTER page 2, about 1/2 way down. It is the best clear copy of the 1958 rule book that we all looked at prior to our drag racing builds. They did not change that much for 59-60. Jnaki That copy/scan of the rules book is as clear as an original book. Great job scanning with a clear resolution, RH. Following the rules to the letter, we were able to get a grip on what was legal and not. Our 40 Willys Coupe with the Strombergs and SBC plus weight qualified for the B/Gas cl***. Later on in 1960, we pumped up the motor to 292 C.I. and got speed parts to work better with a 671 GMC supercharger and the Strombergs. That definitely kept us in B/Gas. But as young and compe***ive as we were, those B/Gas cl*** times and speeds were still 1 sec off and 12 mph off. That was too much to over come without more money, which we had in future speed parts that were on order. But for the current days, we decided to weld steel plates into the floor of the trunk for stability in the total structure and weight over the rear wheels. Now, within the rules book, we were recl***ified as C/Gas and our times were close to the national record. We were really having fun, until...
@jnaki what a great resource! Thank you for connecting me with the 58 rule book, it has all the answers I was seeking. Now I need to weigh my car to figure out what cl*** I'd be in. Also big thank yous to @Rainier****** for scanning and posting the rule book.
There was a car show Saturday night and I took a few photos. This car was one of my favorites. Carl Stone's 32 roadster was my favorite.
Harold (@Ottomotive) Ott - Great photo! ... Thanks for sharing! ... Much appreciated! Please feel free to share more of your photos and/or stories of the '58 OKC Nats!
@wbrw32 - Correct ... it's of Maurice H. Babb's '32 Roadster out of Abilene (note caption on bottom of photo). I think what @Ottomotive was trying to convey in his post was that Babb's '32 (pictured) was one of his favorite cars at the '58 Nats event ... but that his "most favorite" car at the entire '58 Nats event was Carl Stone's '32 Roadster.
Sorry for the confusion. I not really good at this. I been reading the Caddo Mills thread. I went there after the 59 AHRA Nationals at Great Bend Kansas. I was just a kid with a camera. I have no idea who the man in the picture is.
The above photo IS Carls roadster,however that is NOT Carl standing beside it,,Carl was a heftier man than that..I ***ume it is Chas Smith who ran with Carl back in those days..
This is an fantastic thread! I just (last month) purchased a 1935 Ford Coupe that was raced by John Wheeler in the 1958 Nats. I recently received a video of the car as it appeared in 1958 which includes the Oklahoma Nats, from the previous owner. I've re-posted to this thread.
Isky Special The long trip was almost a full day’s drive to OKC. Junior Thompson (Speed Engineering Spl. and crew) was one of the few brave souls from the Westcoast to make that trip to the 58 Nationals from So Cal. Despite the long drive, the rewards were there and richly deserved. Hello, We knew the history of Junior Thompson and his Studebaker Sedan from reading our daily Drag News purchased at our local speed shop. The sedan was always in an article or an adverti*****t of some sorts. Back in 1958, we saw Junior Thompson’s black 4 door Studebaker at Lions Dragstrip. It was an impressive looking 4 door sedan a**** the smaller coupes and roadsters. This big sedan had already made a name for itself and Junior Thompson was on his way to becoming one of the best in this hot, So Cal environment of Gas Coupes and Sedans. But, the motor, driver, and build made it one of the fastest in the Gas Coupe and Sedan Cl***es at the time. His races vs. Doug Cook’s 37 Chevy, K.S.Pittman’s Willys coupe, and Al Hirshfield’s Studebaker Sedan were legendary. They were in the top echelon status of the Gas Coupe and Sedan Cl*** in So Cal, as well as elsewhere. Thompson vs Hirshfield During time trials, sometimes there were match ups just for kicks. Here is one photo that would have been cool to watch if they actually raced. 1958 Lions Dragstrip …no, the race did not happen. When we were racing the 58 Impala at Lions, Jr. Thompson’s Studebaker was usually there. He won a lot of B/Gas races, even the old 4 across races, too. Some Saturdays, there were so many cars in one cl*** that during eliminations, 4 cars took up the whole dragstrip for their races. Put a 283 in a lightweight Ford Coupe: B/Gas. The 4 across was usually in C/Gas and/or B/Gas. Jnaki The team from Jr. Thompson’s Shop was an inspiration to us young teenagers. The sound from the big Studebaker had that “whine” that just made this Gas Coupe/Sedan cl*** winner, awesome. Lions 1958-59 Here is the latest “sound” development movie of Junior Thompson at Lions in 1959. This black Studebaker was one of the most consistent winners in all of the Gas Coupes and Sedan cl***es. Every week, it was in the winner’s circle with the ever present Lions Dragstrip trophy. I am sure he has one of those coveted, red Lions cl*** winner jackets. The film was taken at Lions in the summer of 1959 and the sound came from Junior Thompson at the September U.S. Nationals at Detroit in 1959. They fit each other, right down to the exact shifting marks. Jr. Thompson Studebaker SOUND This is what gas coupes and sedans sounded like in this 58-60 era of West Coast drag racing in the cl***. The sound could be interspersed between any of the above named, gas coupes and race cars.
Had missed this thread until now, glad I ran across it. Very cool history from those who lived it; goes great with a cup of coffee on a "below-zero" Minnesota winter morning. Thanks!
I just realized I never posted these photos of Charles Scott's famous ARDUN-powered T Roadster at the '58 Nats: NO. 113 ENTRY Scotty's Muffler Spl. DRIVER Bud Barnett CITY Bloomington, Calif. CAR '24 Ford ENGINE '48 Ford Ardun The “Antiques” Car Club from Colton California were awarded a trophy for having the "Best Car" in the (Friday, August 29th) pre-Nationals parade through downtown Oklahoma City ... the Queens added their approval.
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