After a search, and reading throught the Alliance Vendor list, I come up with zilch. Is there an Alliance Vendor that sells Hilborn (or compatible) hardware? I am looking for some pieces for the Hilborn Intjection setup in Pop's Berkeley (salt flat car). Pill's, seals, nozzle hoses, maybe some nozzles too (dunno yet) and a set of belled ram stacks. I'm sure there will be some odds and ends that need changing as well (that I haven't found yet). If anybody's curious, so far we know it's a 2 liter 4 Cyl and from what I have seen so far tinkering with the system it's set up with a PG150C- ? (last digit is marred, if it is a digit) driven at 1/2 crank speed, screen nozzles marked 4BS and best I can tell 1 13/16 ID stacks (clamp in type).
FWIW Hilborn sells direct to the public and most of their stuff (especially the little pieces parts) is extremely reasonable. Give them a call - you might be surprised. IF you find a Hilborn dealer here who sells for cheaper than them - I'm gonna let everybody I know - know. BTW - that pump number is basically the casting number and really doesn't tell you squat about what the pump flows. It's basically telling us/you the pump casting configuration which over the years Hilborn has had several versions. To know the SIZE (meaning the FLOW) of the pump what you need to look at is the SERIAL NUMBER - the FIRST DIGIT tells the pump size. When you hear people talking about a "dash one" pump or a "zero" pump they are really referring to that first digit. For instance my pumps serial number is a 1-234X - that signifies a "dash one" aka "-1" pump. My buddies serial number is a 0-1234 - that signifies a "dash zero" aka "zero" aka "0" pump. The "150" series pumps came in I think four sizes - "0" "00" "1/2" "1" and IIRC the "1" flows about double what the "0" does. The 150, 150a, 150b, 150c etc were different output configurations - so basically if you had one and wanted a spare it's a good idea to get the same one again so all your lines bolt right up no brainer style. With a 2 liter a dash zero pump would be way more than enough even with methanol. If you have a bigger pump than that - you might want to give Hilborn a call and mull it over with them. There's some wiggle room but there's limits as well - you don't want a 5/16" diameter pill either!!! Trust me it's all quite simple - I don't mean for a second to make this sound comlicated - heck I'm just learning myself.
Go to hre.com , join up and buy Jims book, its a Bible for Fuel Inj. Pretty sure you get a discount from Hilborn if you belong to HRE. Spud Miller might have what you need also, fuelinjectionent.com
Another good one to talk to is K.J. Crawford,inc in santa Rosa, ca I have delt with him for years and the man really knows what he is talking about.
G***erjohn, Budssuperpro, New Old Fart and Hemirambler, thank you all. I have been looking at the Hilborn page and see they sell direct, I just wanted to give a vendor the Biz if there was one with that product line. NOF, I'll have to check that out, I likes me some books. Hemirambler, yeah I thought I remembered something aoubt there being other numbers on the pumps I have seen through the years, but as I recall the other numbers are on the other side of the pump, and I can't seem to get my mirror in there where I can see it. 5/16 pill? Hole size, OD, entertaining story perhaps? I expect it's rich at B-Ville, as after cleaning / gapping the plugs, and charging the battery with the garrage door open (mid 30s F, about 300 ish ft abbove sea level 70-80% humidity) it blows black clouds under no load acceleration, at any engine speed I have tried it (hesitates on all but the most gentle of throttle openings, big puff of black smoke with ensuing streams if light black smoke till I lift ). IIRC B-Ville is lots higher, lots warmer and 'somewhat dry', so I suspect it's drowning in fuel there. FWIW I never got to see or hear it run there. Looking forward to that.
ERIK, I understand you wanting to patronize a HAMB vendor - please post if you find one. The point of my first post is that I wasn't sure if you were working on a known combination or had acquired a collection of parts that sorta fit together. I am always looking for spare pumps (it's a sicknesss) and I'm surprised to see how many are advertised as a "150" pump - sorta like buying a "Small Block Chevy" - most guys wanna know if it's a 283 or a 350. As far as the ridiculous pill size. We fire my motor on gas (normally it's on methanol) so we toss in a ridiculously large pill in there just to flush the lines with gas. We are WAY outside the parameters - system pressure drops to nothing and it blubbers like a pig - necessary evil as far as I'm concerned. But it IS a interesting lesson in how far off one can be.
Ahhh, now I unerstand. It's the system that came on the car, it was running (sort of) when he (dad) bought it, he made his liscensing p*** in it, the PO made a p*** before that @ approx 10 MPH faster. I haven't driven it, yet. I have been taking things apart (carefully) so I can get sizes and numbers. I haven't gotten any books, yet, but I have read up on them in the past (various articles and 'technical papers'). So I figured throwing out the numbers I had when I started the thread would be a good idea. I'll take another look at the pump today to see if I can get a better look at the other side of it (bringing a few tools home from work for the weekend ya can't have too many tools).
Oh, I forgot, I have a 150 "O" pump around here somewhere, still attached to the distributor / tach drive I got it with. Think I can find it now that I want to know if I already have a spare pump? Cmmon, 3 guesses, first 2 don't count.
We are proud to be Hilborn dealers , let me know if I can help. BTW did you know Stuart Hilborn STILL flows all the injections hi,mself before they leave the factory. I had lunch with Don Enrique last week in Whittier , what a great guy , been with Hilborn for decades.
Sweet! Thanks. That's reall interesting to know, I hope I'm as with it as he is, if I make it to that age.
Okay, since i said I would. It's a "00" pump. I can see the whole other side of the pump now too, even the part that says "HILBORN". So that would be a 'no' on do I have a spare pump already (if the one I can't find is a "0" as I remember).
Are you sure those nozzles are 4BS or are they possibly 4AS -if so sounds like Hilborn "Screen Tip Airbleed" gas nozzles. My 392 injector was setup with 7AS nozzles when I bought the manifold (gas) and I swapped it over to Methanol with 18AS nozzles. My buddy's running the 18A nozzles - aka the deflector tip nozzle also airbleed. 4 sounds right just based on the 2 liter's, but man that "00" pump sounds like a WHOLE bunch more pump than you need. What main pill have you got in there????
Well, I am reading it through a mirror, with one eye (upside down and backwards ). But what I saw looked to be a 00 - **X (no not X's, and I'm not sure if it actually has a dash, or if that's a scratch ). Yes, it has the bleed holes with the screen tips. I took the nozzles out to read them (and make sure they weren't seized in the holes, #4 almost was ). The car does have a ram air setup on it (kinda crude, but who knows till you try it?). The only pill in the system is a .085. It is in a line between the discharge of the pump and the tank return. Not knowing these systems better I was expecting one in the check valve / pill holder looking deal at the barrel valve. Nobody home, just a check valve poppet & spring. Haven't got the book yet, can you tell? Yet another reason to be carefull while I'm snooping. I've goten into the spares, we have several pills 1 ea 065 1 ea 070 2 ea 075 2 ea 080 2 ea 085 (counting the one installed) 3 ea 090 Forgot to look at the time I was getting the #s to see if maybe the chamfer on the duplicate pills were different. You did catch that Limey Steve has the goods (Hilborn Dealer and an Alliance Vendor, 5 posts back)?
Hey Erik - Glad to hear you guys are working on that little ******! Sounds like these guys are taking care of you, so nothing I can say now to help. I often am most helpful when saying out of the way! Limey Steve - Good to know you guys are handling Stuart and Don's stuff. I'll be in touch in the next few months... Scotty
PS: If I remember right, we saw that thing run at B'ville in '07 and it trailed black smoke behind it the whole run.
Scotty, good to 'see' you. Contrails? I don't doubt it. I got the shutoff working late yesterday (arm was mis indexed slightly on it, wouldn't close completely) and it runs best, here (low 30's, 400 ish ft, 65-75% humidity) with the shutoff almost completely closed, even up the rev range. Of course that's no load, so I expect under a load it would need more fuel than I just described, but it seems richer than that even. They must have been planning on the ram air leaning it out. All I know is the more I tinker and test fire the engine the better it seems to run. I don't know if that's me making it better, or the engine just cleaning itself out. I'd kinda like to think it was the former.
Erik, you may very well have a "BS" nozzle - I believe they are identical to the "AS" nozzle with the difference being that they are straight rather than angled - (though I'm not 100% sure) in any event I would strongly suggest you contact Hilborn and ask for a baseline setup - I'm only a rookie, but your combination sounds EXTREMELY fat to me. You may also want to check out a site www.fuelinjectionenterprises.com they have a alot of good tech articles as well as a injection calculator. That poppet off the pump is your main return - that sets your basic mixture. The other one you describe sounds like your "secondary" or IDLE CHECK. That will serve 2 functions - first is setting the idle system pressure - next it will also relieve excess pressure when the motor is zinging and you take your foot off the pedal - it acts like a pressure relief. For it to work properly though - you MUST have the proper SPOOL in the barrel valve. Pull off the inlet fitting on you barrel valve - if your spool is setup for a IDLE CHECK it will have a hole cross drilled in the spool to allow the fuel to byp*** at idle. Remember after a small amount of throttle movement it becomes blocked off and no longer does anything. That's why you don't care that there's no pill in there - when the system pressure is high enough for that baby to really flow - it's blocked off anyways. The only other check valve you should have in there (and it's optional) is a high speed leanout (or series of them if you're John Force) - that allows you to tailor your system at the top of the PRM range. That one "should" have a pill in there lest you like walking on the edge. I would HIGHLY reccomend that you dis***emble this system and make sure it's operating room clean - one plugged nozzle can be disasterous. Guys seem to get quite lax on maintence and alot seem to get away with it for quite a while - my luck never ran so good so I try to keep a close eye on mine. Also I like to take my nozzles and do a leakdown on them - it's not near as good as actually having them flowed, but it's better than nothing. Keep us posted - I'm curious to know what Hilborn or the others reccomends for your baseline setup. Racin'Jacin P.S. I did see that post about LimeySteve - GOOD to know!!!!
Yea, we hav ea local shop building us some injection lines, and a line on all the hose to replace all the other hoses in the system. I have to contact LimeySteve and get some hard parts and pieces. That and several pople on my end have reccomended a Dail-A-Jet (Kinsler makes them now). So I'll ask him if he's got those.
Hi Guys I was just there last Friday , a bit early to see Stuart but Don gave me the tour, very impressive , what a cool set up.All the people there are very nice & helpful. I even got to hold the very 1st injector Stuart made for his flathead, way cool . Trophies are some of Stuarts from the 40's, also Don with some of his , what a cool dude.
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