For the umphteenth time I read , here on the HAMB, about the age of steel. I read “ do you really want 85 year old wheels on your car” I understand that steel can rust and wheels and other things can become weak due to pitting and rust through. But does just “ age” effect steel/iron? Just wondering. Bones
If the wheels had been used for all of 85 years, they might get fatigued....and things like steel valve springs on race cars are replaced on a regular basis because they get worn out. But it has more to do with cycles of use, than it does with age. I prefer using old steel, whenever I can.
Does it age? Yes, along with everything else. I think the real issue is stress. Wheels take a lot of stress during driving and the longer they've been exposed to stress the weaker they become.
I don't honestly know, but besides the obvious (rust, stress damage, corrosion) I think some people are paranoid. Rivets and bolt holes can loosen up over time, and repeated stress causes fractures, but old steel (if it's in good shape) is the best steel. Old steel sounds more solid when you knock on it, feels better in your hands, heck it even smells different when you cut it.
If a wheel is pushed beyond its "yield strength" numerous times is is going down the road to failure as in breaking. Sent from my VS500 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
If they are worried about the wheels, they should really be worried about the sheet metal they are riding around in. Why, it could completely disintegrate at highway speed some day.
I've done work on post war cars that have had metal fatigue in the sheet metal, that is after welding it would split or crack. I've never had trouble with steel but I know others talk about it.
Did you ever notice the cracks in fenders on a lot of pre 1940 vehicles? That is a stress point at which the steel failed due to constant flexing. Kind of like bending a steel wire back and forth to break it when you have no tools to do so. Those are some exaggerated examples of steel failure under stress. With design improvements the cracking fenders went away. Became not a problem not so much as improvements to the steel but design changes. The answer to your actual question is yes but can be delayed indefinitely with proper maintenance (protective coatings or paint) and original design (eliminated fender cracks).
Anything will "age", or change with time. There's more to the story, depending on the forces acting on the material. For steel, just plain steel left alone in a dry environment, the time till any aging degrades the structural integrity is far beyond human life times. As Squirrel posted above, this is really about cycles of elastic deformation, where the steel elastically deforms under stress then returns to it's former shape when the stress is removed. The amount of and frequency of deformation effects the service life of the part. Then there is also erosion and corrosion that will affect the service life of the material. "Old" steel is probably better because of the original structure of the metal, not because of any "aging".
Metal fatigue is a well documented material science phenomenon. It is not solely time dependent. All metals have a fatigue life limit, and that is mostly determined by the number and magnitude of the stress/load cycles seen over time.......the higher the stress cycles (and rate of cycling), the shorter the life will be. Each ally will have a unique fatigue limit. Stress concentrations, such as rivet holes and sharp angles, are typical locations for fatigue crack initiation......and total failure of the part. Crack propagation rate is a function of material alloy and stress levels. Also, as noted above, corrosion can significantly advance fatigue failure, particularly in stainless steel.
That’s one heck of a big hot pot !! How many gallons of steel does it hold? I do work at an aluminum foundry and they routinely fill 30,000 litre hotspots of aluminum and cart them around to there smelting lines with a 50k forklift neat to watch. Can keep the aluminum molten for 3 days with a gas head in through a hole in the lid and a mixer going. Not that they do that but if a failure happens and they can’t tap the hotpot right away at least it’s not a 30,000 litre fuck up!!
I will gladly pick up any 32 or 36 three window Fords that are probably suspect due to their age and I won't charge you a anything for my trouble.
So are you saying it's dangerous to be using these old parts such as axles, bones, suspension in general and old wheels?
Yes, and no, depends on what sort of life they have had, I crack test old stuff that might kill me, everything old that is a safety issue should be examined closely. This is fatigue and collision damage nothing to do with age as above have said.
Most auto parts designed before 1970 have sufficiently high margins of safety that they will have, for all intents and purposes, infinite fatigue life. BUT.....stress risers, such as axle fillets, gear teeth roots, and frame corners, were not well understood by the designers, and are found to crack as high use occurs. These can be easily inspected with dye penetrant to determine if cracks exist.
Guys I understand metal fatigue and stress factors that limit the useful life of a metal object. I guess I understand the basics, not sure I can determine it perfectly everytime by looking at a part. Sometimes you just have to guess, or we would have to replace everything in our old cars. Parts on my car are over fifty years old, some of the other guys on here have cars pushing 90 years . Seems odd that people worry about 85 year old wheels that were on a relatively light car that probably Only went 75 mph once in its entire 40,000 miles life, built with good American steel. But have no trouble getting into a car that has 250,000 miles and 80% of them we’re probably over 75 mph, but are 10 year old and made out of forgien steel. Myself I’d be more confident in the old American made wheels. Just wondering about just how much age is a factor? Bones
Myself I’d be more confident in the old American made wheels. Just wondering about just how much age is a factor? Age by itself is not a factor at all on steel. If you found a set of 85 year old wheels that were never used (and not rusted), they would still be brand new. Other materials are subject to deterioration by things like UV and humidity. It's the usage factor that matters on steel. In any event, you can dye-check the wheels for any evidence of cracking. If there are no cracks, and you plan to use them as designed, you can rely on them to be safe.
I had a wheel center fail on the Right Rear of a open wheel dirt car entering a turn at about 80 MPH. The next 5 seconds or so were very exciting I was told. I’d just assume that I never have that experience that again. Wheel fatigue and failure is nothing to joke about. This was a quality name brand alumin beadlock wheel too. That said I wouldn’t have a problem running a 40 Ford wheel at highway speeds or slightly above so long as it visually appeared to have no defects in it.
I ve had steel rims crack at the bead because of metal fatuge. Ive seen semi truck frames that metal fatuged and cracked and couldn't be repaired by welding. It wasn't necessarily the age but the numberof miles driven. Now those Square Cab 73 up cheevy trucks the frames would break right at the steering sector. I think it was just brittle carbon steel. Old steel was better because it was made fron Raw ores. New steel is often made from recycled scrap and has many inpurities.
Old Jeeps were known for that too. I think that was more of a design engineering failure than materials but would require actual testing to determine the cause.
Old Wolf you are right about recycled steel in new cars and trucks. While outfitting new trucks , sometimes it was necessary cut two inches off the rear of one ton frames. On one brand of truck, that I won’t mention fir fear of upsetting folks, when we were cutting we would hit hard spots that would wipe the teeth right off our port a band saw. They didn’t quite get some of those bearing in the junk steel 100% melted. Bones
It seams like I'm herring more about axle flanges breaking on even non performance aplacations lately. I don't see anything wrong with having spindles and steering components Magnafluxed. Hell I've got history and these parts are older than me.
Iron blocks (SEASON) with heat cycles and age they break in and settle so with engines your better off with a used one like 30 40 years virgin of course rather than a brand new cast Sent from my LG-LS777 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I would worry about the wheel manufacturer. Running a jalopy class car back in the late 60s and my helper put a stock Dodge rim on the right front of my Ford. Lug nuts pulled right through the wheel going into the first turn. Never had a Ford rim do that.
>>>Lug nuts pulled right through the wheel going into the first turn.>>> Of course. That's cuz the lug nuts & studs on a Dodge are usually much bigger than those used on a Ford. I thught everybody knew that. 8^) Jack E/NJ
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