Front end change on my Model A sedan?

I'm all over the place this week, but things are starting to come together (at least in my head!) took the car out of service today, put the van and everything else up for sale to redo the car since im having to redo the brakes and kingpin bushings, I was thinking about how having the axle dropped and drilled a little would look. im going to be changing the wheel/tire combo as well.

right now its a 40 front axle/spindles/brakes. i dont know if I can afford to swap everything out, but open to suggestions on other front ends that will look good..... I'm pretty much learning on this car, so if i sound like an idiot with my ideas, just tell me haha.

going to swap out the grill with a 29 grill and a hood. plan on chopping it another inch and a half to two... i dont want it much lower to the ground....but if i drop the front a little more will i have to drop the rear? maybe run a smaller wheel tire combo on the back?

also, was thinging about going this route for dropping, bushings, drilling and polishing. (not sure if im going to polish, if i polish do you think the brakes backing plates would look silly black?
http://www.roadsters.com/axles/

 

just read this from the site is why im looking at another axle.....

1937-1948 axles are not recommended for earlier hot rods. All of the early Ford axles that were made from 1937 through 1948 have shorter distances between the kingpin bosses and the spring perch bosses. When these axles are being dropped, there is less material to work with, so they can't be dropped as far as the '28-'36 axles, and they don't look as good. Also, with the perch bosses being farther apart, this places the wishbones closer to the tires, making the trailing edge of the tires more likely to hit split wishbones on tight turns. Spring perch bosses on all '37-'48 axles are 2 1/4 inches."

my tires hit the wishbones, it sucks. can i get something dropped a LITTLE bit more, that my tires wont hit, and my spindles will be compatible or will i have to get new sindles, which isnt outta the question, just want to do it right.

 

bttt

 

Caffine, you need a 29 grill. you want a painted or shiny one? I think I can lend a helping hand to another Douchebag...

 

I agree ... the tractor deal just does NOT do it ... for me ...

.

 

i bought one yesterday boones haha. someone responded to my "wanted" post...

yeah 29 grill and hood top,
some headers like these with turnouts, ceramic black



different wheel tire combo (blackwalls), cutting the roof out and doing vinyl, and chopping another 2 inches, and finishing it with glass and semi-interior

 

Did not see your want ad (been on the road) or I would have sent you one... I just got done doing the baffles on my cones style exhaust before heading to Jacksonville. I think you ideas are going in the right direction. Do a 32 Sedan style insert vs a standard 29 style.. (to me looks better)

 

Rob, using a Model A axle, which could be dropped to a couple of inches lower than what you have, would enable you to keep the wishbones that you're using.

There would be no need to drop the back end down any more unless you want to.

Dave Mann
(602) 233-8400 weekdays
http://www.roadsters.com/

 

so my wishbones are whats limiting me? i dont mind a model A axle...what spindles would work best? would i be able to use the ones i have now?

what would a setup like that cost to swap out mine with, drilled of course and new bushings/kingpins.

 

That article is missing some key information. '37-'48 axles are not all the same.

I'd have to go measure to be sure, but from memory the '42-'48 axles have the same perch pin spacing as '37-'40's. BUT, the later axle measures 50" king pin to kingpin and the earlier axle measures 48". The later stock axle has more stock drop built in than the earlier ones. I think that's part of the reason they put a drop in the stock later model radius rods (to clear the frame when ya' hit bumps).

Getting the king pin out farther will help your rub problem. When using a stock axle, my preference has always been the later axle. Wider and more drop. Your spindles, brakes, etc. will work with no problem. Smaller diameter front tire will also help. Oh yeah, you'll need a 2" longer tie rod.

Years ago when we were oval tracking with old Ford axles and split radius rods, to gain tire turning clearance we'd pie cut the radius rod and put a kink in it. This way the rod would run close to the frame rail for tire clearance and then angle back out to the perch pin. We'd gusset the kink for strength. Later on we started running 2"x4" tube frames that were only about 26" wide at the radius rod mount and we didn't have to do that anymore.

 

with an A, axle though, dropped i could use my same tie rods though and still get rid of the rub?

would i be able to use my 40 spindles?

 

I thought the Model A axle was smaller section height at the perch pin tha a '37 up axle.

If it is, then you'd have to use spacers between the axle and radius rod ends. I'd rather be changing a tie rod. AND, after you drop the "A" axle your present tie rod may not be the correct length anyway. If ya' found a later front axle ya' might score the spindles and tie rod with it. But the later spindles take a longer king pin, so you'd be better off using your '40 round back spindles.

Do a search on here for Ford axles. Somebody did a spread sheet that had all the pertinent dimensions and what they look like. By the way, I have a stock axle, probably a '37-'40, that's been dropped. It would have your perch pin spacing and axle section height. I'm going to be selling it. Interested?

Are ya' more confused now?

 

geez, i should just suck it up, re-press my bushings, drill it, and get bones and pie cut them. a little to clear.

 

can i use my existing bones, pie cut them, and move the bone rear mount/pivot point further forward on the frame a few inches? or is that going to throw it off.

 

well fuck me in the ass. i cant go cutting my bones up as my spring mounts are connected to it.

now i wanna redo the whole thing again haha. wtf.......



seee where it rubs...

should i just say screw it, and deal with it? my shock hits the bone mount too its lookin like...

 

Who built that thing? Didn't they check stuff out to make sure it didn't rub before they welded it all up?

 

someone on the HAMB, no big deal, just want to get it right without spening a million dollars to see whats going to work or not.

 

If you want the front lower, I'd get an A axle and another set of wishbones. Drop the axle, then remount the new wishbones with the back ends closer to the center of the car. Then weld new spring hangers to the wishbones in about the same place as now, but with the correct (sharper) angle.

Also make sure things like shocks are not binding or scraping. Enough binding and things start to break. Not real good on a suicide frontend setup.

Good luck.

 

That tractor grill is uglier than shit on a stick!!! If you want a 31 grillshell, I got one you can have if you want to pay for the shipping.---Only thing to remember is that when using a model A grillshell. there is no grill insert, so if your radiator is ugly, or the top or bottom tanks show, there is no way to hide it.---Thats why many guys go to a 32 grillshell---they look good on any year of model A. and they have a grill insert that your ugly radiator can hide behind. A 31 grillshell is 19 1/2" wide x 24" high x 3" deep, and your rad would have to fit it----and if your car is a 28 or 29, I think you have to chop the grillshell about 4" so it doesn't stick up higher than the cowl---you don't want the hood running up hill. I have a steel hood you can have also, but it needs a lot of R and R.

 

i have a 28-29 grill coming in, as well as in the process of figuring out what radiotor is going to fit good in the 28-29 grill and work on my ford 302, someone mentioned walker, just not sure on part numbers.

the tractor grill is pretty much sold.

 

i done necessarily want it lower, i just dont want things rubbing haha. and ideally id LIKE to use my 40 spindles. to save on some money. im probably going with a vega box, to make things a little easier.

as far as the shock mounts, etc. id like to redo that too so the shocks arent hitting the bone mount. so now im back to thinking a whole new front end is in order!

 

How about this, a new front axle, dropped and drilled,

these spring perches

that will move my axle back, and wont be as low, but the drop axle will more than compinsate for setting it up this way right?

with moving the axle back i should be able to use my same wishbones (right?) just cut the spring perch off and move the mount closer to the center of the car?

how about spindles, are A axles the only way to use my 40 spindles?

im starting to understand a little better after all this research.

 

I think you're stance is awesome, too many frame draggers out there. The tractor grill and black on black looks titties as well.

 

I think I would replace that wonderful grill and stand back and take another look. Should make a big difference in the appearance. As far as the axle is concerned, I went through this same situation with my A. I had the 37 axle, spindles and brakes. I found out that there are few places that can drop a stock axle that old and do to right. The cost to drop the original was more than twice the price of a new Superbell 4" dropped axle that fit perfect. So..I took the spindles off and put the rest of the 37 assembly aside. Ordered a new axle kit with spring and hardware, king pin set, disc brake set and four link set up. That was about the same cost as sending the stock axle off to be dropped at some place in California. I'm going to take another look at your front end, cuz I don't know how you can put the 37 axle in an A since nothing matches up. Anyway, the car looks good and has potential. Remember that even though it may cost some money to do, it will all come back to you in more ways than one. Good luck!

 

yeah im looking at a 4 inch drop axle kit from thomspon garage, its like 500 bucks. but not sure if my spindles will fit it or my wishbones will work.


i kind of like my stance too. but since id be going to the axle in front of the spring, to the axle under the spring..that it will kind of even out...maybe make it a LITTLE lower. (an inch or so)

and stupid question, but do these already come with kingpin bushings?

 

If you use the dropped axle you won't be able to use the wishbones unless you buy new dropped steering arms on your spindles. If you use the stock spindles you'll have to use a four bar or radial arm set up so the tie-rod and drag link will work.

 

kevin, good info.

well, there are a few things i want to change.

it ALLL started....like this. my brakes were binding up...and i was having some steering issues....

i balanced my tires, to try to fix the steering, didnt work out that good, helped a lot but its abut 90% now.

I pulled the wheels to check out the brakes..thats when i found the brakes were shot, i need new wheel cylinders, shoes, etc. then...i have quite a bit of play in my kingpin bushings......when i bought it, it was new kingpins, but old bushings.......

the tire rubbing doesnt bother me so much. BUT...i figured im re-doing the WHOLE car.

plans are model a grill, hood, tranny swap, new blackwalls, new steering setup, new brake master/pedal setup. vega steering, glass and finish the body nice, floorss, semi-interior, relocate gastank, chop it 2 inches more and get rid of the roof fill and either re-do it or go with a trad. A vinyl top as i like the lines...(obvouslt not all in that order)

wheels are 16 in front and 17 in the back, i havent thought MUCH about tires.

i wouldnt mind an inch or so lower in the front, but...looking at my existing front end, the tires rub, steering sucks a nut, need new brakes, the shocks are hitting the bone mounts, the spring shackles are attached to the bones quite a bit crooked....i just want to do it right, reliable, and safe. before i go out and dump a good 150 on brakes, i wanna make sure im thinking ahead with the front end and figured i might as well do it right.

so in short, i like the stance, id like maybe an inch 1.5 lower wouldnt be so bad, im changing steering to vega and getting rid of the cowl, i hate how my shackles are crooked and my shocks hit...if i have to get new bushings, brakes, and reweld a bunch of shit, its worth it to me, im not much of a fabricator and id have to get someone else to weld for me to trust it..(i can weld, not good, just a lot haha) to just swap the front end with something that will work good, be reliable, and safe.

IF i can elimnate the tire rub while im at it...yipppe too.

 

so i can use wishbones if i get dropped steering arms?

how about ride height if i swap out with that front end, how much lower do you think it will be?

guys that are running dropped axles, how are they running wishbones/steering setups?

 

To give you a field of comparison, I am running a 4" dropped Superbell axle and a model A transverse spring with reversed eyes---the front tires are 25 1/2" diameter, and the measurement from the garage floor to the top center of the original model A crossmember is 12". That is on the car as you see it now in my avatar, with full engine and body weight on the springs. I do not have any tire scrub issues with chassis components)