Why would you eliminate the torque converter?

I was looking through a parts catalog that caters to dirt tracks, modifieds, etc. I saw this shaft used to eliminate the torque converter on an automatic.

How does this work? Does some type of clutch take its place? Would you shift the ****** just like a standard?

I don't expect that you could use this on the street, just curious how it works without the tc. I know it saves a lot of weight and rotating drag.

 

The dirttrackers run an in-out box. It's like a direct drive. You gotta just keep your foot in it to work. It would not work on the street.

 

Remember that drag racers also once ditched the converter, early 1960's..."Clutch Flyte, etc.). I think then part of the issue was high RPM launch, as really high stall converters hadn't happened yet. Pump was driven by a little spider thing that engaged the pressure plate fingers.
Part of the automatic scene was that the first really good modern automatics were arriving, and the available three speeds and BW T-10 were no longer strong enough to handle 400+CI Super staockers.

 

I don't know about the shaft you were looking at but they use to make a turboclutch kit.........a clutch and pressure plate took place of the torque converter........you pressed the clutch to move from P, R, D...........BUT once in drive you could select 1, 2, 3 gear with out useing the clutch..........also at stops you had to press the clutch in like on regular manual...........turboclutch was name use on chevy th350/400 i don't know the name on others but i know they had other kits for them

 

Actually the torque converter just allows you to leave the trans in gear with the engine running. As long as you drive the pump, the trans will work. Those eliminator shafts have to be used with a byp*** valve (I ran one hooked to a clutch pedal) to dump the fluid pressure back into the pan. Once you close the byp***, the trans works normally, but shifts immediately. This is very hard on driveline parts. Eliminating all the weight of the converter makes the engine rev like an air sander (sounds really cool...), but isn't very practical on the street.

 

so if you run this shaft in place of the tc can you push start like with an in-out box? doesn't seem like you could use the electric starter any more.

 

Atch,
No you can't push start it. The trans needs fluid pressure to engage, and that only comes from the engine driving the pump. There's no direct connection to the driveline like a stick. Some OLD 'Glides used a second pump on the output, and you can get a "bump start" kit for those...but WHY?????

 

Its just a coupler from the crankshaft to the front pump. Most are bolted up to the crankshaft flange & retain the flexplate just for starter use & eng balance. We use a ball valve to dump the pressure when idling or at a stop. The main advantage is rotating weight loss & they run SUPER cool. They cannot be push started unless it has a rear pump or a mechanical way to activate the low band. NOT real streetable! You should see them run on our dyno, damn near tips it over when it shifts LOL. DAVE

 

There was an article in a late '50s copy of Speed Mechanics about some guy's roadster with a Y block/Fordomatic that he eliminated the converter on. The article mentioned that he had to slide it into neutral at every stop. Real handy, especially since the guy lived in NYC!

 

Can anyone explain B&M's Hyrdro-Stick to me?

I've never found any details on it, but it appears to be a clutchless old '40s 4spd GM auto..

 

Also known as a beefed hydro...early fifties four-speed Hydramatic, with fluid coupler, heavily reworked with higher pressure/better frictions, etc., lots of work to keep the high pressure fluid on the inside, and a "shift kit" equivalent rework so it shifted by stick...it was automatic only to highest gear selected, so you could drive automatic fashion in 4th or run through the gears manually.
It could survive big inch/heavy drag cars in which no known stick of the day would last...very popular in gas cl*** coupes.

 

Thank you Bruce. Do you, or anyone else, have any pictures of the mechanicals? I'm fascinated.

Doesn't hurt that Tony Danza wore a Hydro-Stick t-shirt in Hollywood Knights.

 

I have heard that you could get a hydro to shift REAL HARD. I also remember reading somewhere that the hydros had something like a 4.30 first gear ratio.

 

Automatics built prior to (as I recall) 1961 had a rear pump that allowed the trans to couple to the engine and therefore could be push started. In '61 the rear pump was eliminated and cars could not be push started.

I can recall seeing guys pushing a (circa) '61 Pontiac up and down Silver Spring Dr. in Milwaukee trying to start the *****, not knowing it wasn't going to happen. Their last p*** was well over an estimated 70 MPH.... must'a been fun with no power brakes or steering. I think they opted for jumper cables after a couple of cold beer.

 

The Roto-Hydramatics and Jetaways didn't have the rear pump.

Those numnuts crusin' Silver Spring never were very smart...we used to only hustle gurls on Wisconsin Ave or the Polish babes on Mitchell St......yah, hey!

 

Hot Rod magazine had an indepth article about the modifications B&M made to hydramatics in '55-'56; if I pinpoint the exact issue, I'll let you know.

 

I have a Ernie Glide in my race car. Its a power-glide with the guts taken out. Has no tork converter, fr.or rear pump hell it dont even have a valve body. Works great, you just push a hand lever to get it rollin then put her in direct drive and go. It all weighs less then 60# with oil.

 

So what is it? A PG case with a clutch inside it?

 

No clutch, there is a master cyl on the right side frame that operates the low gear band to get it rolling then you use the shifter on top to slide the input shaft back into the trans to lock it up in direct drive. Real simple set up