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O.T. Product Liability Questions: Hot Rod Product

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Gas_Tires_Oil, Jun 3, 2006.

  1. Gas_Tires_Oil
    Joined: Feb 27, 2003
    Posts: 757

    Gas_Tires_Oil
    Member

    I had some Moon/Eelco style tanks made from some old 2 1/4 gallon beer kegs which I was going to sell and now am a little worried about the liabilties of such a product. Is any one here savvy on such a subject? I started an LLC (Limited Liability Company) to try and protect myself from being sued but still have my doubts. I'm not going to make much on the darned things. Just wanted to make 1 for my g***er, make a few bucks as well as have a little fun contributing to the hobby. Not sure they'll ever get sold now. It'll be my luck that some dufus gets hurt and they blame it on my tank.

    1. Are there any ways around this problem? Like calling them something other than fuel tanks?
    2. Or should I sell them as "for Novelty Use Only" ??

    Need help or I'm s****ping the dream.

    thanks
    Gas

    If you'ld rather give advice off line my email is philupton@earthlink.net

    Here's a pic to give you an idea of what they look like:

    ps - let me know if you think they **** and I should give up just for that! LOL
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Royalshifter
    Joined: May 29, 2005
    Posts: 15,980

    Royalshifter
    Moderator
    from California

    You can sell them with a sticker on them "rearend at your own risk".
     
  3. 392_hemi
    Joined: Jun 16, 2004
    Posts: 1,737

    392_hemi
    Member

    There's always a possibility someone will try to sue you if something goes wrong. An LLC may shield you from personal liability, but depending on the cir***stances, it may not. I used to do custom gunsmithing and was very good at it. But there wasn't enough money in it to offset the possibility of some half-wit suing me if he did something stupid and hurt himself or someone else.
     
  4. synthsis
    Joined: Mar 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,899

    synthsis
    Member

    I think there are a couple ways to protect yourself. the "Novelty use only" is a good start. "install at own risk" or "off-road use" or "show car piece only " are a couple other ones. the bottom line is if someone really really wants to sue you, they'll find a shady enough lawyer to do it. I'm sure you can find a simple disclaimer form somewhere that purchaser's need to sign prior to shipping the product.
     
  5. Gas_Tires_Oil
    Joined: Feb 27, 2003
    Posts: 757

    Gas_Tires_Oil
    Member

    A friend who used to have an off-road truck parts store told me that a company which used to sell "Roll Bars" for the beds of pick-up trucks ended up changing the name to "light bar" for mounting off-road lights. It seems they did this as a way to prevent themselves for being sued.

    Thanks for the input guys.

    Keep it coming!!!
     
  6. synthsis
    Joined: Mar 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,899

    synthsis
    Member

    what do you plan on charging for these? it seems due to their size (2 1/4 gal) track use would be the only reasonable place for them due to their small size.
     
  7. Gas_Tires_Oil
    Joined: Feb 27, 2003
    Posts: 757

    Gas_Tires_Oil
    Member

    Well, to tell you the truth I was hoping to get up to $200 =/- $20. I'm also going to come out with the other typical things like T-shirts etc...
    I'm tired of dreaming about it so I thought I'd finally get the ball rolling this way. If it shows some promise I'll take it to the next step. I have other ideas for products as well. To be honest I think that 75% sold will be used for Novelty Use and the remaining percent guys will actually use them for an overflow tank or fuel tank.
    Within the next couple years I want to open a Hot Rod/Muscle Car repair shop here in CT if I can get a friend on board that is a great and paint body guy.
    The manufacturing company I've been working for the last 16 years is up for sale and I don't have good vibes about it staying here in CT. Time to start plan B.
     
  8. Kilroy
    Joined: Aug 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,232

    Kilroy
    Member
    from Orange, Ca

    Sell them as "Radiator Catch Cans"

    let people figure out how else to use them at their own risk.
     
  9. ELpolacko
    Joined: Jun 10, 2001
    Posts: 4,682

    ELpolacko
    Member

    radiator catch cans is exactly what I was thinking. A bit small for fuel on anything but a drag car. Not a whole lot of liability on those items..
     
  10. Jeem
    Joined: Sep 12, 2002
    Posts: 5,882

    Jeem
    Alliance Vendor

    "FOR DISPLAY PURPOSE ONLY"*

    *Coker Tires

    wink wink nod nod
     
  11. Gas_Tires_Oil
    Joined: Feb 27, 2003
    Posts: 757

    Gas_Tires_Oil
    Member

    Even with a catch can it can be dangerous if someone were to open it under hot pressure. Seems I can't win. They have a vented spring loaded flip top cap that says gas on them. Might have to grind that off too.

    I'll look into the Coker thing! thx
     
  12. ELpolacko
    Joined: Jun 10, 2001
    Posts: 4,682

    ELpolacko
    Member

    You worry way too much.

    let it all hang out and deal with the problems "IF" they ever occur
     
  13. Burny
    Joined: Dec 20, 2004
    Posts: 1,602

    Burny
    Member

    Just my.02...

    If you're serious enough to start an LLC, you kight want to get some liability insurance as well. Might help you sleep a little better. You can get 2 million for probably a couple grand, depending on who you use. Not sure about all the ins and outs of an LLC, but I know if you incorporate it will also protect your personel belongings, like your house and cars etc.

    Not sure of the cost, but getting them tested before selling somewhere might be a good idea also...

    Then again, "novelty use only" is the most common and cheapest way to go...you just gotta make sure you don't market it as anything else but...

    Good luck. BTW...they look *****in'...
     
  14. Gas_Tires_Oil
    Joined: Feb 27, 2003
    Posts: 757

    Gas_Tires_Oil
    Member

    My freakin wife and my lawyer neighbor have me worried ****less. If it were me they would be on the market already. I can hear it now though, that if I were to be sued, my wife (then it will be ex-wife) will always say - I told you so! She aint no risk taker and also aint a car chick so she doesn't understand.

    Thanks Burny, I actually started looking into having them tested but haven't had any luck yet. I also contacted my insurance company to quote me. I didn't tell them about the fuel tanks though. Just said I would be selling parts and offering services.
     
  15. Slag Kustom
    Joined: May 10, 2004
    Posts: 4,312

    Slag Kustom
    Member

    just sell them on ebay as

    "unknown make"

    could be used as: fuel tank, over flow tank, what ever you like.


    this would keep you away from any problems.
     
  16. Gas_Tires_Oil
    Joined: Feb 27, 2003
    Posts: 757

    Gas_Tires_Oil
    Member

    Not sure that will work if I keep selling them there. I have about 30 of them right now.
     
  17. Royalshifter
    Joined: May 29, 2005
    Posts: 15,980

    Royalshifter
    Moderator
    from California

    You could say it is an alcohol tank for refreshment purposes only and hang a bendy straw out of it.
     
  18. HolyHandGrenade
    Joined: Jun 17, 2005
    Posts: 645

    HolyHandGrenade
    Member

    Sell them as coolant recovery tanks, or water jugs, hell anything, just sell me the first one. How much?

    I promise I won't put gas in it and I will sign a waiver;) :D
     
  19. Cyclone Kevin
    Joined: Apr 15, 2002
    Posts: 4,253

    Cyclone Kevin
    Alliance Vendor

    Sent ya an email.
     
  20. Gas_Tires_Oil
    Joined: Feb 27, 2003
    Posts: 757

    Gas_Tires_Oil
    Member

    Offering them as a kit might be the way to go as the blame can be placed on the purchaser and his welder. Kinda ****s thinking this way but it might be the only way out.
     
  21. repoman
    Joined: Jan 2, 2005
    Posts: 1,276

    repoman
    Member

    It's a fuel tank. What's the worst that can happen?

    1. It leaks.

    Big deal. If it leaks in a trailer of a race car, and burns it to the ground when someone makes a spark, I suppose you are liable. Do you test every one for leaks?

    What if the welds get eaten by methanol? Could happen. You should put an expiration date on them.

    Pick up a gas can at your local hw store. I believe they have certification stamps on them. Find out how you build to spec for those authorities.

    It sounds like you've already invested some money and time here. People sell fuel tanks. It's not a crime.
     
  22. Gas_Tires_Oil
    Joined: Feb 27, 2003
    Posts: 757

    Gas_Tires_Oil
    Member

    Yes repo, every one will be tested for leaks. The expiration date is an interesting idea. I'll have to look into that. I remember seeing that on Propane Tanks but not on gas cans.
     
  23. raffman
    Joined: Sep 28, 2005
    Posts: 658

    raffman
    Member

    Why don't you contact somebody like Rockvalley tanks. I tryed to buy a partly done tank from him and he said he could'nt do it because of liability. Also the reason the prices were high because each tank came with a insurance "surcharge" of sorts.
     
  24. Gas_Tires_Oil
    Joined: Feb 27, 2003
    Posts: 757

    Gas_Tires_Oil
    Member

    Thanks, I'll check into it raffman.
     
  25. 28rpu
    Joined: Mar 6, 2001
    Posts: 419

    28rpu
    Member

     
  26. Johnny1290
    Joined: Apr 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,834

    Johnny1290
    Member

    You gonna sell 100 of 'em or 1,000? If it's 100, I'd sell them as novelty and call it a day. If it's 1,000, I'd spend the money and hire a lawyer to CYA. The mitigating factor is how well can you sleep at night after selling these with whatever wording you come up with? My guess is a lawyer would tell you it's defensible if you call them novelty. Doesn't mean you won't get sued and lose, but that you have a solid defense. In my mind that's about the best you can hope for, but then again hey I'm just a layman, not a lawyer.

    Sell 'em on the HAMB and see how they do. :)
     
  27. Gas_Tires_Oil
    Joined: Feb 27, 2003
    Posts: 757

    Gas_Tires_Oil
    Member

    Closer to 100. Might not even sell that. LOL
    Maybe if I stamp "Novelty Use Only" into the bottom somewhere.
    Each one can be numbered as well and photographed for the pictures in each for sale thread to kind of do***ent them.
     
  28. Jalopy Jim
    Joined: Aug 3, 2005
    Posts: 1,867

    Jalopy Jim
    Member

    Talk to other street rod shops, or shops that design and install suspension peices. Other small shops will usually help the new guys??
    Suspension design and install would be a greater liability risk.:cool:
     
  29. They ALL did! That was an unbelievebale situation, one of the first to hit the aftermarket industry. You can't build ANYTHING that is idiot-proof, only idiot-resistant.

    Engrave a plate with something like "not for use with any combustible liquid" and weld it on the tanks right next to the filler. And pray....
     
  30. I would just put it as "For Display Purposes Only" with a little sticker on the bottom.

    If they put it on their car and put gas in it...you said not to....
     

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