Michelle has given me the okay to buy a hemi core to look at ... meaning, a rebuildable motor for a few dollars. I probably wouldn't have $$ to build it until this winter, or next year, but I'm excited. The problem is, I know virtually nothing about the different variations, and compatabilities. What I was originally thinking was that a 331 would be nice, but I looked at the prices for rebuilding the desoto, dodge and chrysler, and they all run within a few hundred dollars. I think a lighter weight one, would make the most sense, so maybe the desoto or red ram? I don't need tons of power, but 350hp would be nice... any thoughts? Are there any good articles online about this subject? Books? Thanks in advance, Ben
If you stick with the chrysler 331, 354, or 392 parts are more readily available and are easier to come by then the dodges or desotos but they are physically larger also. Check out this web site for info and the kind of questions you have www.thehemi.com there is also a forsale and wanted on there as well. I built a 392 so I'm partial but any hemi is good in my book.
Heres a couple that may help you..... www.thehemi.com www.hothemiheads.com They both have message boards.
Regarding the dodge motors. I'm currently building a Dodge 270. It's taken me about 5 years to round-up the parts. I aquired 3 motors and out of that have enough parts to build one. I have a spare block, crank, and cam, but will probably have to hold on to them in case the motor croaks during the first few years. One engine I bought didn't have any heads, another had ruined heads (eat-away rust), and one had pretty nice heads. The one that had ruined heads was driven into a junkyard (2-ton truck). I thought it would be OK, but water went down the carb (no air cleaner) and mud-dobber wasps built a nest on top of a couple of pistons. I have thrown out all the old stuff on the front of the motor (eBay), and replaced that with the hot-heads motor mounts (dodge didn't have motor mounts cast-in on the block until 1956 poly motor. Finding a 56 poly motor is like playing Bingo). With the HH motor mounts, you can run a chevy water pump. 241/270 Distributor and timing gear/chain are common with the 318/340 LA blocks, so modern stuff can be found there. The high-decks need an extension on the distributor. There are some rare stamped "Super Red Ram" valve covers, but no one I know that has them will sell them. Most just had a sticker. All of the dodge valve covers were the same (241,270,315,325). The 241/270 is called the low-deck, and the 315/325 is called the high-deck, and yes, the parts are not interchangable for the most part. It took me 3 years to find a 4-bbl cast-iron. The only aluminum one readily available is the tri-power setup. I just bought some new valves, and $330 was as cheap as I could find. HH wants $400. The ports look smaller than a Briggs-Stratton 5HP lawn-mower engine, but it is all about supply and demand. No demand, high prices. Final thoughts: I'd buy a chrysler block (331 or 354) and get it done in less than a month.
Ben, Buy the book THE COMPLETE CHRYSLER HEMI HANDBOOK ENGINE MANUAL by Ron Ceridono. It's avcailable on ebay, etc. It's the best book about hemi's for those who want to learn about them and are thinking about buying a hemi. I read it cover to cover and then went out and bought my 354 Hemi. You must buy this book if you wanna get started in the right direction and not waste your $$ when you are ready to buy and rebuild.
Chryslers are the easiest to find parts for, but I would say condition plays a big part as well. A DeSoto that turns freely and has been under a hood beats a 392 that's been collecting rain since 1978 any day. I recently bought a '52 331 because A. it is complete; B. it turns over completely; C. it was within easy driving distance of where I live, and D. I bought it reasonable because most people shy away from the '51-'53 long blocks. I've got a '54 4bbl. intake, a used but good set of adjustable pushrods, a new set of stock .030 pistons, and a N.O.S. adapter to bolt a Packard transmission to it. Another good thing about the early engines (pre-'57)--a flathead six flywheel will work on them. Look around, and buy the most complete engine you can find that has spent its life under cover.
That book is the best book for Hemi's I found mine at the local barnes and noble. I am currently building a 241 I am a spend as much as a bigger on to build it. Mine will have about 250hp. My suggestion would be to figure out how much power you want then choose the one you can get that much power out of without getting to radical. I will cost you any route...but it is a hemi...thats right ladies I said hemi.
Good deal, I'll order that book up tomorrow... sounds like good reading, regardless. I've been reading at the links posted above... pretty interesting! Ben
ben, if you need 331 parts let me know, I'm selling off my heads, 2 barrel intake, stock cam, and some other miscellaneous stock parts during my drag motor buildup...and I have that book you're ordering if you'd like to take a peek at it before buying it...ohhh, and if you read this before 7am tomorrow morning there's a huge swap meet at Raceway Park in Shakopee, MN on Sunday for mopar only parts and such, you really should go...
If you want a dyno verified 350hp, check out webrodder.com's buildub of a dodge hemi. A whole bunch of ideas and tips on there. You probaby don't have t spring for the hydraulic roller like they did. http://www.webrodder.com/index.php?search=hemi&page=showStories&CID=15
Here's some stuff that I found around, not in that Hemi book that you all are speaking of, great book, but this stuff is great to have in addition to that. Also some people selling Hemi engines might not know that the industrial engines can be used in cars.....I found 3 right under my nose, for a steal.. All of the Ind. motors I have,ALL had the car style water pumps,my truck motor has a very large timing cover with the thermostat in the intake manifold. I also have an early car motor 53 with the thermostat in the intake. The Ind 56A had the same exhaust manifolds as the 392 2" I.D. , the Ind56 had 2-1/4" (better) The big trucks and 300 letter series had the 2-1/2" I.D. (best cast) manifolds. The ind 56 is a 331. The 56A is a 354. The Ind 56 should have a 1 piece water pump/crossover thermostat housing which is shorter in length than the 2piece 56A . All of the ind blocks that I have, have the front engine mounts (simmilar to 318) which werent used in favor of a U shaped cast iron mount that bolted to the front of the car type tin timing cover. (this U shaped mount worked really good in the late 50s pickups,civ power wagon,and truck). The Ind cam pulls good from idle to 5000 peaking between 1800-2200 , I like these better than production car cams. 354s & 392s used the same 2" intake valves. The331/Ind56 used 1-15/16 intake valves. All(except the first of the 331s) 331,354,392 had 1-3/4" exhaust valves. most ind.especially propane,or natural gas ind had hard exhaust seats installed into the heads,which are exellent for unleaded gas. A lot of these motors were just taken out of service in the last 10-15 years and had a tremendous amount of hours on them, thus wearing out the oil pump drive. rarely would you find a Ind block with a lot of cylinder wear. But eventually the piston ring groves would wear out. (Car engines were just the opposite). Also before putting the engine into a vehicle check the bearings & mic the crank because on high hour motors the babbit would usually be warn off the rod bearings.
A 331, 354 or 392 Chrysler is the way to go. For the 331s, life is a lot easier if you get a later one that does NOT have the built in bellhousing. The 555 heads that were on some of the 331s are supposed to be the best out of any of the early hemis. But those are almost impossible to find because they were used on a lot of drag motors and everybody wanted them. When they do turn up, they've usually been modified or seen real hard use. So inspect carefully before you buy. After the the 555 heads, the 354 heads are the best. Also the 331s and 354s have a slightly lower deck hight, so they are physically a bit smaller than the 392. Of course the 392 has the most inches, and probably powered more FEDs than anything else. Most of the time the decision comes down to what's available for the price you're willing to pay. 331s are typically $500 - $1000, 354s about $750-$1250 and 392s about $1250 and up. Of course there are exceptions (I got my 354 with the rare four bolt downtube rams horn exhaust mainfoleds for $250). One other thing, be aware that industrial and truck motors have some unique features, and unless you're planning on running the motor in stock configuration, you're probably better off avoiding them.
Ben, you should have been at the Mopars in the Park swap meet, there was a 392 with a shitload of new parts that was going for 900 bucks, and a 331 truck motor with another shitload of parts for 800...both motors came with multiple sets of heads, multiple sets of brand new pistons and rods, and all kinds of other parts...if only I had the money...tried to remember to get the guys' number and I forgot in the middle of conversation...
It wasn't in the cards to be there this year... but I did manage to get an autodarkening welding helmet yesterday... wow, I can't believe I went this long without one! Ben
Kinda O/T but my comp wont let me look at Hothemiheads.com Anyone got any ideas? I can see it at work.
hey ben, talk to mark cronk on the mnratrods yahoo group, if I remember right he said there was a car nearby him (a desoto if I recall) that still had the firedome in it, and it was for sale...no idea if it's still around...there are a couple cars at the local auction in a couple weeks down by me that might be desoto hemi cars, but chances are the motors are stuck, I looked at all the cars yesterday and they looked pretty shitty...
Okay, what was the cut-off year between the long and short bellhousing?...A friend says i can have the 331 out of a car he has laying out in his yard but i don't know what year it is yet....Regardless, assuming it has the long one, am i screwed as far as what i can run for a tranny?
51-3 are long tails. 54 was suposed to get long tails(2bl) in the cheaper lines & short tails(4bl) in the more expensive cars. 55 & on + all Dodge & deSoto are short tail.
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