Ok, hypothetically if i was to split a front wishbone, what would be a the traditional way (read: 40's/50's) to secure the wishbone to the frame? the easy route would be to use modern eye bolts w/ rotating bushings, but in an effort to maintain "period correctness" what should i be looking for? Also when did hairpin style wishbones come into use on the flats. (i know that many early T race cars used hair pin style bones.) Finally any good pics of "lakes" style modifieds or roadsters? thanks -
hiems are nice and all, but trad is tie rod ends... as to the hairpin question, i have seen them on pics dating back to the early 60's from mirage and the salt... hope that helps a lil
I wouldn't mind seeing some close-ups or diagrams of the mount brackets for tie-rod ends. I have a vintage set of split wishbones with what looks like a set of tie rod ends on them, I'm curious to see just what they should be bolting into as a support.
Look up the original Tom McCullum 32 roadster. (There is/was a clone.) A well done car that ran split bones. Standard tie rod ends are 11/16-18. A Ford proprietary thread size, but there are taps available. The F1's I think it is use 3/4-16 tie rod ends and these may be a better way to go on a split bones setup. Taps are easier to find as well. You'll want to make a tapered weld bung that matches the tie rod end taper and weld it to the mounting bracket. I believe Speedway carries these and if not them, Chassis Research in Iowa probably does.
Like He said make sure you use a tapered hole or bung on the back of your wishbone mount,...... and a gusset as well,..... The newest beater I have drilled the bones on this one, and I am going to replace the mount's that are on it, I am going to hack out something with a little more style. ( like the blue custom car cover and hood hold down ?)
for those in the know is there a proper height from the center of the tierod end hole to the bottom of a Model A frame for proper front end alignment when using split bones ?I just got a bunch of A parts.how far below the frame bottom should the rod ends be located using a stock A axle with spring on top and split bones.got too many free pieces not to use my boxed a frame may even go with A/B 4banger
Leon, its not so much a mounitng point as it is king pin inclination. There are tons of threads on this topic throughout the HAMB, I would suggest a search for "king pin angle" or "king pin inclination" or "wishbone set-up" or "wishbone mounting". I think optimum is 5-7 degrees but I don't have as much knowledge on this as others so I would investigate it further.
There can be a lot of variables when setting up the front end, and specific engine weight is one of them, with the suspension loaded you want to have at least 6 degrees of caster, with a beam axle and split wishbone setup the caster at the axle will determine the lenth of the frame mounting bracket centerline, of course you can also "V" notch the wishbone to acheive the proper caster,.... but it can be tricky getting both wishbones identicle, and I personally don't like the idea of V notching them,.... just my opinion
Speedway has the bungs in several thread sizes. $10 each. They also have the rod ends. In the old days the trick was to weld a length of tie rod end into the split wishbone. But bungs look much nicer. On the frame you will need a bracket with a 7 degree taper hole. Again, the old school way to make one was to cut the eyes off unserviceable spindles and weld them into the bracket. Done right, this can look mighty fine.
Maybe it's a mistake posting this,.... please don't get offended folks but,.... Caster and King Pin Inclination are actually two diffrent things,..... Caster is the angle the king pin sits at when looking at the side of the car,.... the top is tilted toward the back. King Pin Inclination can be seen from the front of the car,... it's the angle the king pin sets at against a 90 degree plain to the ground and actually is related to "Camber" just thought I would mention that. HW
ok guys I do undestand that I want 5-7degree inclination I just thought that someone would know that to get it you would want like 4-3/8 inches off the bottom of the frame or something like that. I already have the split bones with truck rod ends done years ago but in very good condition they were on a stock A front that was split when a 265 chevy was put in the frame the mounting plates are missing.This is my first old type rod so this isn't second nature to me thank you Leon
Like Harms Way said, it's NOT inclination you are talking about. You are talking about caster. As for what would be period correct, you can run either tie rod ends OR spherical rod ends. Either would be period correct. The tie rod end is what most guys used because they were cheap, and most hot rodders in the late 40's and early 50's didn't have the money for spherical rod ends, also commonly refered to as "Heim joints". If you go with Heim joints, it would make it a post war 40's car. Matt
I set my gasser up with 5 degrees of inclination and 3 degrees of caster. My HAMBster has 5 degrees of inclination and 10 degrees of caster. My mounting point is 2 1/2" below the frame...but the frame is very low in the front do to a spring behind the axle set up. I am using an early Ford tie rod end...5/8" in hairpins....Good luck with your deal
Leon, There are too many variables to say your mount should be X amount below the frame. I'm setting my bones up parallel with the rails, and then pie cutting the bones as needed for caster. Not sure why this bothers some folks. With all the welding involved in the build, none can be second rate. Any failure could be catastrophic. If you have the slightest doubt about you welding abilities on any part of the chassis then take it to a pro. I bought the bungs and rod ends from speedway. Cheap, and they look "right" to me.
Could you make a bracket with a slotted bolt hole that would let you set up alignment just how you want, then weld it up solid? I'm thinking it would have to pivot in a way that raises or lowers the tie rod end, which would give you a few degrees at the axle.
I make my own bungs. I use big truck lug nuts and turn them in a lathe for the proper fit in the bones end. Then weld them in. lots of thread sizes are available at NAPA etc. Jim
Speedway bungs and rod ends, they also make a tapered donut. Z'd 4" instead of hanging down it is welded to the bottom. then a plate in front and strap over the top. Same greaseable part as the other 3 components. http://www.directimagehost.com/is.php?i=99363&img=DSC01317.JPG http://www.directimagehost.com/is.php?i=89301&img=DSC02348.JPG
I doubt you will find many split wishbones in the 40s. Slit wishbones were not a styling statement or a performance update. Their only purpose was to make enough room to fit that big honking OHV Caddy or Olds V8 engine into the frame. I don't think you will find any bangers or flattys with slit bones from that era. There was no need for them. For an authentic early home grown hot rod look...weld a split tie rod adjusting sleeve into the end of the bones complete with the pinch bolt and clamp. I've even seen some done with the model A and early V8 style tie rod ends. The safety police are breaking out in a cold sweat but that is the way it was done. Parts came from the back 40 not a catalog. Later in the 50s and 60,s bolt on kits were available. Most were steel but there were also some cool aluminum bolt on radius rod mounts. Going by the shape, I'd say that these were custom made and then chromed. I had some of the aluminum ones but I never liked the look. I much prefer the small subtle painted mount that doesn't break up the flow of the frame.
thanks for all the posts guys I understand what you are saying and I definiatly am not offended my terminology was wrong. I know the direction that 5-7 degrees is suposed to go.I was raised in a stock car racing family. I hate to use this term but "traditional" streetrod building is new to me to some extent, now if I wanted this thing to turn left really good i'd be ok on my own but I'm most likely going to have lots of questions about building old style rods for a while.in the past I have built a big block powered 72 pinto and a big block 49 ford pickup only now I want the T roadsters and ModelAs I always dreamed of .
The Jalopy Journal
