Would anyone be able to help on this? I was looking at my rear end sitting on jack stands and went to put a wheel on to see if everything fits up. However, they don’t. My stock wheels that I planned on using do not fit over the center hub on the end of my axle. I measured the the hub on the axle at 2-3/4 and the rim is at 2-1/2”... I looked at some steel wheels online and the center openings are larger. Is it ok to run wheels if the center hole is larger? Will I have any issues with centering and staying in place? Obviously the lug nuts hold everything in place but not sure how much the center bore of the wheel comes into play. Need to know something before ordering some wheels for the back. I am using 15” x 6” wide wheel with a 5x4-1/2” bolt pattern. Otherwise I could pull the axels and see if I can get a local machine shop to cut down the O.D of the center hub on the axles. Any help would be appreciated. I also posted this in my 54 Ford Customline build thread but figured I may get a faster response as a general question. Thanks
It is nice when the wheel and hub fit together, you have a stronger set-up. If you don't take the wheels off regularly they can get stuck on and be a pain to get off. Most of the vehicles that we have on here had wheels that were just held on with the lug nuts. Be careful though as I said MOST. There are a few that need support from the hub or drum for correct fit!
A lot of snow tire rims ( it's a Canadian thing) are not hub centric ( fit tight on the hub) and are only lug centric , the only problem most of the time is that you might get a little vibration . We try to get hub centric wheels when possible .
Your issue is pretty common. Myself when I run into it I pull the Axle and go over to my lathe and turn the stub down. Just be sure to leave enough standard size to center the Drum on.
I was thinking of that but I don’t know what someone would charge me to turn them down. Plus, I just got the rear end assembled. Hate to pull it all apart again.
I ordered another set of rims from summit. I think what I will do is when they arrive, I will measure the center hole of the rim and the hub of the axle with a caliper and see if I can get someone to turn me a spacer to slip over the OD of the hub and the ID of the wheel. I can always tack weld it to the axle so it stays in place. That way it will be a little more sturdy and be kinda the way it should.
I went out and looked at two sets of steel 5 on 4-1/2 wheels I have here and both had the 2-3/4 center but both came off disk brake rigs. One set is 15x7 or 8 with a 4-1/2 back space that came with snow tires on a 91 Grand Caravan but they aren't grand Caravan wheels by a long shot. and I think the other came off my daughter's 78 Monarch. If you plan full hubcaps I'd just head to my favorite wrecking yard tape measure and lug bolt pattern gauge in hand.
You probably already know this, but if you weld on the axle, be sure your ground is on the axle. Welding current through bearings is bad juju, don't ask me how I know...
Thought about that but unfortunately my work schedule has been hell lately and not much time for junk yard picking....plus for some reason, I never get lucky at junk yards. It’s like sifting for gold in the cat’s litter box...I think I’m going to find gold but all I find is crap..hopefully the set I bought on summit tonight will solve the problem...they will have a 3.250 center hole.... now I if I get lucky and find someone with a lathe, I can have a couple of spacers made.
Have your spacers made with an ID slightly smaller than the axle nub {.001"-.002"). Heat the spacer ring and while hot (expanded) put it on the axle nub.
Possibly a little left field (well, a fuckin' lot left field for this place!) but you could search spigot ring and look for something. Might need to be working in that new fangled metric measure though? Chris
Some vehicle manufacturers have a history of using hub centric wheels and it’s a necessary requirement that the center bore of the wheel fit the center hub on the vehicle since the wheel is located by the hub.. These vehicles usually have lug bolts that thread into the hub assembly on the car rather then lug nuts that thread on to studs on the hub.. BMW, Volkswagen, and Mercedes are manufacturers that have been using hub centric wheels and lug bolts.. Many aftermarket wheels are generic lug centric wheels with a center bore that will accommodate most hub dimensions.. If your wheels have a center bore that is oversized for your hub it will most likely not be a problem.. If you have unusual vibrations occurring that you feel might be related to the hub bore you can get hub bore spacers that will take advantage of the center hub to locate/align the wheel to the hub more precisely..
Got the new wheels from summit. The center hole of the wheel is only about a quarter inch bigger overall. So there is about an eight of clearance around the center hub of the axle. So if I do make a spacer ring, it will be minimal. I am going to see if I can find some tubing with the correct dimensions. Maybe I’ll get lucky. If not, I can run as is or have someone make me a set of spacer rings on a lathe. The only kicker is now my damn moons don’t work on the new wheels. They don’t snap on the outside of the ring on the rim like they did on the sock wheels. So I guess I’m going to have to buy two more wheels for the fron and another set of baby moons to fit inside the ridge on the rim. Always something.....
Most of us with old cars that run aftermarket wheels have lug centric wheels, not hub centric. It's not a big deal...try it first without any spacers, see if there's a problem, before you go trying to fix it.
lugs/bolts/studs do wheel locating and mounting, not the center. vibration would be from (probably)old, out of round or bent wheels. i've given up on trying to rejuvenate old wheels and now buy new steel smoothies from WheelSmith. zero vibration. mine don't center on the wheel bearing casting either, front or rear.
The ones from summit seem really decent. Came with a nice primer coat that I painted right over with VHT and they look great. Just really disappointed that my moons won’t fit. Thought everything would be the same as a stock wheel. So looks like I have to go with the baby moons that they offer for those wheels...
Shrunk fit spacer (or tack welded as the OP mentioned) would prove interesting when you want to pull the drum for brake work.
You've run into the discs vs drums hub size. Ford used the same hub size from '49 through to about '69, then changed the hub size to prevent owners from forcing drum wheels onto disc applications. Ford bumped all hub sizes up initially, then enlarged the full-size cars even more a few years later. If you want a wheel that will use the same hubcaps as your OEM ones, hunt down a pair of about '70-74 full-size Ford wheels.
@RICH B gets the award for the best smarts o' the day. Good catch, I will defintely remember that. Maybe turn spacers with a lip that will be captured by the wheel when installed.
What I was thinking about when I said a spacer. Was not a full wheel spacer, more so a ring to fit around the center hub of the axle only. Just to basically increase the size of the center hub to the same size as the opening in the rim....not like a full wheel spacer that would also slide over the studs...center hub only..so would not interfere with removing a drum or a rotor in my case.
I think I understood what you had in mind........but a slip fit would not stay in place, so I thought 'press fit'......not thinking the effect it would have on drum removal. Really conspicuous when you think about it.....but I just focused on a way to solve the problem, failing to consider the consequences. Your last sentence is, I think, quite incorrect...a spacer ring affixed to the axle 'nub' or front hub would definitely affect removing the drum, an possibly the rotor if it is a two piece assembly, since they also use the nub or hub as the centering device. UNLESS, the spacer ring is easily removable. So, maybe a set screw or two in each ring to hold it in place, but allow it's easy removal would work. All that said, I am more inclined to forget about a spacer ring and just use the lug studs to locate the wheel and carry the loads and not worry about the hub centric issue.
Probably will be the way I will go, so many people feel that the studs/lugs are all that is needed. I really just didn’t know how important the center hub was to the integrity.
I think in engineering theory and in an ideal world, the hub centric mounting is desirable. As a practical matter, millions of cars and light trucks have operated without adverse effects or failure using the wheel lugs only for wheel centering and retention. Like most things though, success depended upon quality materials, accurate manufacturing tolerances, proper fastener torque and inspection/maintenance over time in operation.
It all depends,,, Sometimes it’s no biggie and some times it is. My FIL’s van for instance,,, Bent a wheel got another one. His original wheels were hub centric the new one identical except had a bigger center register hole. After about 5000 miles the lug nuts are all chafed and the lug holes in the wheel are chafed and there a bunch of filings inside the little hub cap. The other 3 are original with 150,000 and no issues, they are hub centric. There’s 1000’s upon thousands of examples where it’s never been a issue.
Before you make custom spacers, take your wheel center I.D and your hub O.D. and do a search. Many aftermarket wheels nowadays utilize hubcentric. The hard plastic rings are about $8 a set and come in many sizes (usually metric size callout). I recently scored a nice set of aftermarket wheels for $40 (owner was going back to stock wheels) for my Daughter's car. Took the dimensions to Discount Tire's counter and they had just what we needed in stock.
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