Looking for someone who has put a '40s Ford COE on a 73-87 GM pickup ch***is. I know there have been threads of guys who have done it but finding those threads is virtually impossible. I'm looking for tips on doing the steering - in particular swapping in an upright van steering box.
The COE that was being built by 65standard used this combo......search on here for it. I was going to use that vertical steering setup on my COE, which is a '51 Ford w/a GM squarebody ch***is. I even bought the box and linkage. Problem is, the van frame is much wider than the truck and it would require cutting and welding the center link and fabbing a new idler arm setup to keep the geometry correct. Instead I used the earlier van box(76-78?) which raises up the input several inches and keeps the OE linkage intact. Dunno if that would work on your earlier cab, but worth looking into....
I don't understand you point about raising the input. The box can be mounted at whatever height your little heart desires, no?? As for keeping the OE linkage intact, since the van pitman arm is vertical as opposed to the OE horizontal, doesn't that change things - how does the pitman arm manage to attach to the OE linkage ?? Got any photos?
On mine, I separated the truck steering box from the center link. I used a 1976 GM center link, and mounted it in the stock location with two 1976 idler arms. I then had a professional weld a m***ive bracket to the center link. I then had Pete and Jakes make me a new flat pitman arm to fit a GM car steering box and also put the hole in the center link bracket. (They put the same tapered hole in both the bracket and pitman arm), I mounted the car steering box on the inside of the frame. It aligns easily with the column. I then used a GM 4x4 drag link to connect the steering box to the center link. System works great and is super heavy duty. I never found a truck center link with an extra hole in it, so I made my own. The bracket is so long that it spreads out the welded surface area. No matter what you do, make sure you maintain the factory geometry. You cannot mix a rack and pinion with a non-rack system unless the upper and lower control arms are the same length, etc. If you try to mix the stuff, you will risk getting bump steer. Note - The 1 ton GM truck suspension is already close to too wide for the 38-47 Ford trucks, especially if you want to slam it down low. If you are building a light duty truck, then you can get different offset wheels to help with tire/fender well clearance issue
I was hoping you'd chime in because I'd seen you post this before but I couldn't find your build thread - probably got killed when they did that upgrade quite a while back. Anyhow, the front track on these 73-87 GM trucks is 65.8 versus 61.3/63.3 on the COE. I think I'll be ok since a) the original COE had the wheel/tire tucked in a fair bit and b) other guys have posted that they've had no problem. So that '76 center link is off of what - car, van or truck? '76 idler arms - also from what? "car" steering box? year, make & model ?? If the '76 stuff is from a GM truck then those things from my truck should work fine - I believe '73-'87 are all the same. Thanks for your input and insight.
The earlier van box I was referring to mounts horizontal like the truck box, not vertical. This maintains the stock steering geometry. It is "taller", which lessens the angle of the steering shaft. Mine is mounted outside the frame as my cab ('51) is wider. But it could be mounted inside the frame as well. I only needed 2 u joints to connect. Like I said, this may or may not work on the early cabs, but is another option. Been on the road a couple years now and drives beautiful.
A-ha !! Now I see ! Just for the hell of it ... the '73-87 GM truck ch***is is 28" wide at the front and the box is mounted outside. The original COE frame is 34" wide and the box mounts outside . The steering column is straight into the cab. So moving the box inside the frame would just complicate things. Regardless of what is used - truck, van, car box or r&p, its best left outside the frame for alignment purposes.
Having the box inside the frame permits the steering column to be aligned with the stock gauges, instead of having the huge offset mount and crooked column as done by the factory. This is why using a front mounted, rack and opinion setup would be very desirable...the shaft is then located inside the frame and in front of the cross member, right where you really need it to be. I've seem some builders keep the GM truck box mounted outside the frame and rotate it to align the shaft to the column. They cut and re-weld the end of the center link...but this is really bad, as it changes the geometry with every turn of the wheel and puts strain on the idler arm. There is a company (Industrial Ch***is) that builds a very nice aftermarket Dodge Dakota cross member, It would work great in the 38-47 Ford COE as the track width is perfect and the rack is front mounted, the Dakota IFS has all kinds of advantages: 11" front brakes, a 4-1/2" bolt pattern, rides nice, etc... Problem is, I think that the cross member itself is pricey. However, if you add up the cost of all the parts, the Dakota might be cost effective.
The van box hangs outside the frame quite a bit, I dunno if it would work out there with the taper of the early cab. I clocked mine in slightly when I built the mount......then re-clocked the pitman arm to line up.
So that '76 center link is off of what - car, van or truck? '76 idler arms - also from what? "car" steering box? year, make & model ?? If the '76 stuff is from a GM truck then those things from my truck should work fine - I believe '73-'87 are all the same.
I can't remember if it was 1973 or 76 GM truck center link. It ****s to get old. I'm sure it is written somewhere on the HAMB. I sent you a private conversation with my email address, send me your address and I'll forward you an email with pictures and a written description. I can't figure out how to copy and paste the email into this site.
The later center links are different. The tapered holes are different sizes on each end. I used all 1-ton parts.
I considered this with my 2002 Dodge 1500 4x4 ch***is, but could not make it reasonably work in my head. Did you build new mounts into the crossmember to create the new R&P orientation?
I wonder if a Crown Vic IFS would swap into a COE? Here is one in a 53 Ford F-100. It might be too wide for both the GM frame and track width
I knew a guy locally that put a late 80s Thunderbird axle under an 85 Ford half ton, fit good there. How does a crown vic compare with the Thunderbird? (I'm ***uming the 85 half ton is wider than a 53) Edit; From what I can find on the 'net, a 2007 crown vic has a front track width of 62.8 with +50mm offset wheels, so hub to hub would be about 66 3/4".
Most truck track widths seem to be in the same ballpark. The '41 era Ford COE is 61.3"- 63.3" and the '73 - '87 GM is 65.8" and most GMs and Dodges seem to be around there regardless of year. Let's face it the only oddball out there is a Hummer !! Those track widths are close enough to be corrected with wheel offsets unless you want to put really fat rubber on the front! So a crown Vic might be a possibility BUT one thing I've noticed with r&p is that the input is further back than a steering box. That's not a good thing on a COE. You want the input pointing straight up but you also want it far enough forward so you don't have the column going straight down - either on its own or with a u-joint or two.
I found this when I Googled "crown vic track width". Worth noting is that although the COE track is 61.3-63.3", the width to the outside of the front fenders is 77.3". So even using the Crown Vic wheel/tire combo there'd still be plenty of fender clearance. But I still think the rack would cause more grief than a steering box. This is from measurements taken from an '05 Crown Vic. as close as I could measure. Track width with stock wheels - 63 1/2 Hub to hub surface - 67 1/2 Outside of tire - 71 1/4 The '02 and earlier which are sometimes used as a complete clip are different. These measurements are from a '98 Crown Vic. Track - 63 Hub to Hub - 63 1/4 Overall - 72
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