Need a little help in the ID of a GM 3 speed trans I picked up. CASE: GM 20 3799193 D1162 TAIL: 3707195 COVER: (4 bolt) 3731911 GM Counter Gear Teeth 27-14-22 Is it Muncie or Saginaw? Thanks
If it's got a four bolt side cover, it's a Muncie non-synchro low transmisison from a '55-'65 Chevy. '55-'57 and '65 car transmissions had a long tail, and '58-'64 were short.
I am getting conflicting reports from the Chevy site that it is a saginaw. can someone who knows set this straight?
Well ,,what benefits did they have over other 3 speeds at the time ? I mean 1st MUNCIE did it really mean anything or ??
"non-synchro first gear" Muncie three speed. It was a pretty lame transmission, cheap to build, not very strong, and a pain to downshift into low gear.
Only mounts from the bellhousing. On tri % chevy car fame has struts out from each side. On truck complete crossmember from side to side.
I know this is 10 yrs old, but everybody that told you that four bolts for side cover is a Muncie don't go far enough back in time or purely love typing. I have two 3 speed saginaws , one from 57 one from 70. Both have four bolt side covers. The 57 is casting 3845122
And in 10 more years we'll still be having this discussion. The 4 bolt side cover Chevrolet/Pontiac/Oldsmobile/Buick (the last 3 saw very limited use), passenger cars and trucks, were MUNCIE 3 speeds. Specifically, a Muncie 318 if a 3 speed, a Muncie 319 if it had overdrive. You may consult any of the OLDER, Motor's Manuals or Chilton's, go to DriveTrain.Com for ID and parts, or even try the older Hurst Shifter catalogs. There is also NO way a 1970 transmission was a 4 bolt Muncie; 1965 was the cutoff year of them being used. 1966 is when the 7 bolt Saginaw 3 and 4 speeds came out, there is also a 7 bolt side cover Muncie, full synchro 3 speed, and even a Borg Warner full synchro 3 speed that saw limited use. The real kicker is the DEARBORN, full synchro 3 speed that was used in some Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles, and Buicks, years 65-70 (imagine that, a FORD 3 speed in a GM product!), but, they also used Saginaw, Muncie, and Borg Warner full synchro 3 speeds in the same time frame! Maybe someone, somewhere along the line, swapped an old Muncie 318 into your 1970's vehicle? Stranger things have happened. And, I know a lot of people that also refer to the Muncie 318/319 as a "Saginaw", I just let it ride for the most part, but you seemed especially adamant about your transmission knowledge concerning the Muncie VS Saginaw issue . Most of my information comes directly from my Chilton's 1971 and 1976 editions, and many years experience dealing with various transmissions. If you don't have direct access to any of those manuals, most public libraries carry them. You will find many others who also refer to the Muncie 318/319 as a Saginaw, and some sites on the internet print what others have erroneously stated. If you have need for a Muncie 318, or a Muncie 319, I can provide those, and I also have the Hurst NOS shifters and kits for those transmissions. I no longer have any full synchro Saginaw 3 speeds or 3 speeds with overdrive. So, just at a quick glance, Muncie non synchro first, 3 speed-4 bolt side cover; full synchro Saginaw 3 speed-7 bolt side cover; full synchro Muncie 3 speed-7 bolt side cover (arranged differently than the Saginaw); full synchro Borg Warner 3 speed-9 bolt side cover; and finally, full synchro Ford/Dearborn/Toploader 3 speed- 9 bolt TOP cover. This only covers GM application 3 speed transmissions. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
well said. Although if you were to peek at the 1968 chevy truck parts book (from Chevrolet) you'd find that they made the 318 all the way up to 68. It was redesigned in 65, with a higher helix angle on the gear teeth, and they went to a fine spline output shaft.
Yes, and I always wondered WHY they did that when better and stronger 3 speeds were available by then (???), several different and stronger ones to boot for both passenger cars and pickup trucks. I used to always say the reason GM used the Ford 3 speed, was as a way of fulfilling the "trade agreement" when Lincoln used GM Hydramatics in the early 50's. Also, old habits die hard, as does old and outdated information (as posted by Sid Dunn of this thread), and old wives tales also run rampant in the automotive areas. When I was in X-Ray school in Tyler, Texas, there was a foundry just outside of town. Whenever I'd drive by there, there would be these mountains of old engines, transmissions, and anything else made of iron. A person could pick out the various engines/transmissions, and I'd think of all the things I could/would do with them. Instead, they wound up as manhole covers, and the like. All that valuable, automotive history, about to become history! The "same, basic" Muncie 318, with the 4 bolt side cover, was used in 1954, and as far back as 1940; just a little different design for use with the torque-tube drivelines. I have seen the fine spline output shaft Muncie 318's, and was even going to do a BIN bid on a Corvette Muncie 318 complete with shifter/linkage that was on E-Bay for several weeks/months; but, it would have just been another transmission in the way in the garage, but someone else saw the value I saw, and made the bid before me. Lakewood used to make a scattershield with the Tri-Five Chevrolet pattern and side mounts, but it also had the Ford mounting pattern, along with a dropout plate for easier clutch changes. I had thought about finding one of those scattershields, and use a Ford application, Borg Warner T-85 3 speed with overdrive (the R-11, 4 pinion, stronger overdrive planetary than the R-10, 3 pinion, overdrive planetary GM used), in my Sedan Delivery with 4.88 Positraction in the rear end; way too much gear for the street these days. I surely don't claim to know everything, but I know a little about a lot of things. Sometimes that gets me in trouble, and sometimes out of trouble. The HAMB has a way of humbling all of us. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
Ok I need to go deeper. I just bought a 319 that hasen't been delivered yet. One shift arm has splines and one doesn't. Is this a later version with the fine spline output shaft? Thanks.
I just got a 1966 Chevy C10 with a 3 speed manual The transmission appears to be a muncie. Or Hey GM can anybody help me. It has a four bolt side plate
A 66 truck "should" have a Saginaw, but the Muncie 318 and 319 were used a little longer in trucks (???)r, you have a Municie 318 or 3`19 if it also has overdrive. AND, I a NOS Hurst shifter for the Municie 318/319 transmisssions if you need one. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
he said it's a 4 bolt side cover, so it's likely the Muncie box with non-synchro low gear. The 1965 and 66 version of that transmission had different angles on the helical cut of the gears, as well as a fine spline output shaft, iirc.
Thanks guys! After many hours of research And searching for other 3 speed tranny I know for sure mine is a Muncie But I bought a spare and it has a long tail shaft now my question is Can I exchange the long tail shaft for a Short tail shaft?
Yes you can swap the tailshafts & housings. My 55 wagon uses a 318 Muncie. and I have just about every kind if three and four speed there is. Why use the 318? Because they have a pretty steep 1st gear. and I have a pile of them and don't cry when I tear one up.
I have a 63 Nova with the 194 6 cyl and three on the column. I want to keep the column shift and upgrade to a synchronized Saginaw or Muncie three speed. I didn’t know there was a Muncie version. Is there any benefit to the Muncie? Aluminum case? Thanks.
The Muncie heavy duty 3 speed is REALLY heavy; it's built a lot heavier than the Saginaw's. As long as you have the correct transmission shift levers, it should't be much to convert to the later trans, but I'd probably start with the Saginaw, given the choice. Like I said, the Muncie HD is a lot heavier. And, strictly cast iron cases for both the Muncie HD and the Saginaw's., none were made of aluminum. I am Butch/56sedandelivery
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