Some of you may remember me as the guy who built a model T looking speedster out of many John Deere parts. On this vehicle I used a model A transmission-which Deere used in one of their tractors. For my next trick, I'd like to build something similar, but since these are model T era, and many people say the T transmission was the first autotmatic (correctly or not) I was wondering if I could hook some sort of small automatic to a Deere four cylinder engine. I would likely have to use the engines original heavy flywheel, but could it be coupled with some sort of shaft to a small three speed auto out of a Pinto or some such small car? P.S. I'm not very smart so use small words and I'm new to this so don't use too many acronyms or initials.
I have heard of automatics to model A engines so im sure with enough machine work you could do it.Likely going to use a flex plate if you use a torque converter.Do a google search for automatic to ford A.Theres a guy with a site on his product.Pictures may give you some ideas.
My friend Jack Costella has put C4 transmissions behind lots of things. I don't know why you couldn't drill your flywheel to attach the torque converter. The C4 has a bolt on bellhousing. Jack always uses a SBC blowshield which he drills the flange to the block bolt pattern. and the other end to the C4. I guess he spaces the converter to correctly accept the input and pump drive. I'm not sure why Jacj uses a Chevy blowshield. I have used a Ford blow shield to adapt a Pinto 4 speed to a couple of engines. Lotus 907, 32 Plymouth PB and 26 Dodge Bros. I did use a Chevy blowshield to put a Saginaw behind a 392 once. Chevy shields are easier to find used,
Doesn't really matter whether you use a flywheel or a flexplate as long as you can make them bolt together and some type of bushing to center the torque converter. My question is: What are you trying to accomplish ?
Yes, I understand that part of it. Pehaps I should have said "Why" instead of "What" ? Most changes are done to improve something. Other than "novelty" of doing it, I don't see a purpose.
Well that explains “why” you’re not doing it. Maybe he’s going to mount the stuff on a Home Depot lumber car and go land speed racing. Maybe he needs to run a tractor but can’t operate the clutch. Maybe he’s building a little T era gizmo to drive in a parade
You could have said “”Why” are you trying to accomplish?” First it’s not a proper sentence, and Then you would see your question fits in the same category as other questions like why did you climb the mountain , why did the chicken cross the road
The third one is correct, but I would include tractor shows. I'm not real happy with the gearing on my first car. It's too fast to drive in a parade and too slow to race. As I first stated, I though if I could install an automatic it would sort of be model T like.
The picture I had in my mind, was nothing like what you built! That’s kool! Always did like combining things, that normally don’t go together! I understand the need for automatics in a parade . Really hard on a clutch vehicle. Good job! Edit: one problem you may encounter is the rpm of your Deere engine may not be real compatible with the torque converter of a car. Bones
The Model T was really a manual, not an automatic. It was a planetary design that used cotton or wooden bands. It was all manual controlled through pedals and brake handle linkage. The bottom line is a T transmission is nothing like a more modern fluid drive transmission of any type. Tractors behave and drive differently than cars. The vintage tractors I know well.... Fords.... You do not bang through the gears. One problem with Ford 2N-8N-9N- Jubilees-NAAs-100s and even gasoline 1000 series was 1st gear was too fast. They were OK for well plowed fields of the Midwest and flat bottom land but could be problematic for the Appalachian highlands with rocks roots, draws and bluffs. To gear the Ford back down a Sherman auxiliary transmission was a popular accessory. For this car, maybe you need something like an auxiliary transmission rather than an automobile automatic.
F F-ONE, I agree and disagree with you on the Model T transmission. Granted it does not have a torque converter or even a fluid coupling. But you do “ clamp” planetary set of gears to change speed, very similar to the modern “ automatic “ transmissions. You did have to do it” manually “ so it’s a manual transmission that functions like a modern automatic.They were very easy to drive, provided they were in decent shape. The next version of the Ford transmission was a “ manual” for sure and more difficult for a lot of drivers, due to no synchronized gears. Most folks ground the gears quite a bit. It always tickled me when Hollywood would show a model T taking off and grinding the gears. The T transmission was before it’s time! Bones
What about like a early 60s Pontiac automatic transaxle like in Tempests? Auto trans that is in the back? Might be a matter of fabbing a flange that bolts to your flywheel to a mount a driveshaft that drives the rear torque converter? I dunno.
Maybe @Deere boy you should make this photo your avatar and people will see right off the bat what you're all about.
Ever consider a snowmobile type drive? Some handle some serious horsepower and are customizable as far as engagement speeds, coupled to a small 3 speed for reverse - just may be the cats tail feathers.
What kind of RPM's will your engines turn? Might have a problem keeping the converter engaged at lower speeds. Here's a site that shows a lot of conversions. Might give you an idea of what's involved. https://transmissionadapters.com/ SPark
My suggestion for what it is worth, is an early cast iron Powerglide out of a 1950 - 54 Chevrolet. It would look suitably 'vintage' and comes with a torque tube drive like a Model T or pre 49 Ford. Also the torque converter + 2 speed auto should work well with your high torque 4 cyl as it did with the high torque Chev 6. It is quite a small transmission for an automatic. The torque converter does most of the work. The torque converter is key, you want one designed for a slow revving high torque engine not a high revving V8.
If you wanted lower rear gears, the manual trans cars came with 4:11 rear axle gears up to 1952, the Powerglide models with 3.55:1. For your use, would recommend the 4:11s. Both gear sets interchange. You don't need a heavy flywheel with an automatic. It might be a good idea to adapt the Chev flex plate if possible. Or if this was not practical, you could drill bolt holes in the Deere flywheel and bolt on the Chev torque converter. This would give a 'vintage' performance, I mean sluggish, but it would work and be very smooth. If you don't care about the torque tube drive they made Powerglides up to 1974 with open drive shafts, and they were as common as cold noses on ****er spaniels. 1950 - 51 models had manual shift, later ones started in low and shifted automatically. But for a more vintage or model T like driving experience, any of them can be changed to a manual shift. Your car would take off easily in high, and not need to be shifted. Let the torque converter do the work. Any of these would idle down as slow as you want, for parade work.
First, I'm not the least bit concerned with making a proper sentence because there are usually flaws in most things the general public writes for consumption on the net. I do usually manage to convey my thoughts in a reasonably understandable fashion though. I ' m more into communicating than worrying about sentence structure. The OP put minimal information about what he was trying to accomplish and I saw some possible problems or flaws "if the vehicle was to be used in a normal fashion". I simply attempted to get more information in order to help him. If as his subsequent posts mentioned, he wants to drive it in parades, and display it as his picture suggests, then best of luck to him. My concerns weren't with adapting to a flywheel but adapting to the motor, torque converter slip, gear ratios, and antique brakes holding it at a red light...... If you check one of his replies above, you will notice that he alluded to the fact that the car in his picture goes " too fast" for parades.....a fact that suggests "why" he might want to make this conversion. It's also a fact that none of us were aware of when I asked "why"......or was it "what"? Before you can attempt to help someone, you need to know what goal they are trying to accomplish.
There isn't anything wrong with building something "Novel" to attract attention. If the purpose of constructing any vehicle is "only" to attract attention, that's a suitable goal for many people. I think the car you have in the picture is really Kool, and demonstrates that you have very good abilities for building things. The "novelty" of the John Deere on it makes it stand out for someone who might not have seen anything unique about it when displayed with similar type vehicles. As for what or why you are doing something, I think that's a legitimate inquiry if you want good help and suggestions.
It's unlikely the converter will lock up at parade speeds. In fact I doubt anything in a parade has reaches stall speed. Or most city traffic. Who cares? Not the guy driving in the parade.
I found an article in the Petersen "Complete Ford Book 4th Edition" that shows a Model A engine coupled to a slant six 904 transmission. Looks good since the slant six mounts the starter to the transmission about the same place as the Model A. Said that the transmission input shaft wasn't exactly 90 degrees to the face of the bellhousing so had to slope it down a bit. Tried scanning it here but lately that hasn't worked.
Having done a few parades with a clutch rig years ago I can full and well understand the desire for the automatic. I'd say this rates a lot higher on the get more use and fun out of it than as a novelty deal.
Yes, I agree.....but we didn't know that he wanted to use it in parades until I asked him "what" he wanted to accomplish. Maybe he wanted to build a Tractor with an automatic (per 31 Vicky w Hemi). Nobody knew . His car stands out because of the "novelty" created by adding the John Deere logo......which serves no other purpose. Its not like adding larger tires,a faster engine or chopping a top. Those things add not only astetic appeal but actually contribute to the performance of the vehicle. They also make each vehicle somewhat "unique" because of a combination of usable modifications. Lets face it, most every jalopy journal builder tries to make their car unique so that it stands out. Personally I'm not a fan of "dodads" that serve no real purpose. I like the beauty of functionality. When I see an engine or a whole car built as a hot rod, I want to see things that are there (or not there) for a purpose. The OP is obviously not building a "hot rod" or a vehicle that expects to be driven often. He is however trying to improve the "functionality" of the vehicle for its intended use. I wish him well in that endeavor and how he wishes to go about it.
Am I wrong. Didn't he clearly say the speedster is built from John Deer parts? John Deere engine. Not really just a grill.
Its a mixture of components from Model A.Model T and John Deere. From going back and looking at some of his other thread info, the engine is a two cylinder Deere. Seats and radiator pirated from a Deere too. Model T frame,and Model A axles. Don't know about the fenders and running boards, but ***ume they didn't come from a tractor. On Deere Boys other thread, he stated: "Got it done for a show in June, but still working through some clutch and brake issues that make it a little scary to drive in traffic. I bought an aftermarket clutch disc, which I found out was a little too thick and I had to go in and put washers between the flywheel and pressure plate. The linkage to the brakes needs some better engineering also." Those are exactly the things that I mentioned that I had some concerns about in an earlier post. I didn't even see the OPs post above, until just now. Perhaps we can get past my using the word "Novel" and concentrate on helping Deere Boy find a good solution rather than dwelling on "terminology". Personally I think his speedster looks great and I admire his creativity. As for his clutch and washer set up, he might try contacting Ky Clutch and talk to Dave. Its in Brooks Ky. 502 955 9173 They make and sell all kinds of custom clutch setups and probably could get him the correct thickness he needs. As for the brake problem...need more info again. https://journal.cl***iccars.com/2017/02/15/deere-car-not-farm-implement/ Thought I'd remind everyone that I built my own version of a mobility scooter that I consider to be rather "novel" errr "unique" that is.
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