Technical Cam break in! Why all the problems?

Thanks, I take it silver is a better bearing material than what is used in cars and trucks? Just too expensive to use in “ cheap” engines?







Bones

 

This is my thoughts too! Set the lash were the pushrod 'just touches' the lifter when doing the initial adjustment.
do the 3/3500rpm deal and then reajust!? Think that would be enough pressure on the cam lobe to successfully 'wear-in' the lobe/lifter?
I guess....if that simple trick was the solution the cam grinders would say it!?!
Built a Shivel-lay dirt track engine once and later found one of the lobes were flat. It was STILL a winner in several races. Driver was the key (as usual)
6sally6

 

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned it yet, so I guess I will, Lubri-plate white Lithium grease as cam break-in lube. When I was a kid, I helped my dad swap dozens of cams, and that's ALL he would use for reassembly. He would put a liberal coat of grease on the cam (lobes and journals), install it, then roll the lifters in his greasy hand's and just before installing them, he would dip the bottoms in the lithium grease and put them in. He used it on the pushrod tips and rockerarm balls too. He'd make a rough adjustment on the valves and fire it up. Once the engine got up to temperature, he would adjust the valves again, with the engine running, to zero+1/4 turn. Solid lifters were always final adjusted hot and running too. Never any high rpm break-in procedure, no special break-in lube, good quality oil, and not one lobe failure to date. The most recent cam swap was about 5 years ago. Is this just pure luck or is white Lithium Lubri-plate just that good? I've never done it this way myself, but that's just me. Has anyone else used white Lithium Lubri-plate as cam lube with the same results? Just curious... [emoji848]
My apologies for the long winded question.

 

Early 80s GM 305 bit me in the ass with a lobe failure.

 

I worked in several GM dealership parts departments in the 70's and 80's. Up to about 78 model year we had a big problem with camshafts in 305's and 350's. I lost a lobe on my 1977 305 at 36k. Oil changes at the dealership every three months, added GM EOS to it (the early formula) and used CAM2 oil (I worked at a Penske owned dealership) from the first oil change.

Chevrolet blamed everyone possible, mainly the owners for these failures. It was finally unofficially revealed that it was due to the camshaft billets, this I heard through our Zone Rep.

 

I’ve used it in the past and believe it or not STP. I used that because if you ever got it on your hands , it was hell to get off , even with soap. So I figured it would stay on the camshaft. Out of all the engines I have built, some hot rods some regular engines, I only lost one camshafts, in a Ford 428 CJ, with a Motorsports cam. My break in procedure was prime the pump via distributor hole, have everything set as close to right as possible. Run it a time in the shop at moderate rpm, then take it out on the road and drive it. Worked for me, never used any “ break in “ oil, just plain old 10w40. Thats why I was wondering why there’s such a problem, now?










Bones

 

So, I have never seen it for my self. But there is a local engine builder who has build a cam break in machine. Apparently he used a small block chevy with an electric motor to run the cam and lifters with light springs. The engine doesn't actually run , just the cam is turning. Then installs the broken in cam and lifters into the actual engine. Now my question is. If this guy can come up with this. Why can't the cam companies do this? Sell PEMbroke in cams?

 

Too many variables from one sbc block to another.

 

That's what I'm trying to get at. The engine Jeff Lutz runs is a full on race engine, not an OEM with light spring pressure, or even a higher performance/hot rod street machine. DDDenny said his friend was running a 468 Big Block built by a professional. What we don't have is any real information about the cause of the failure. In Lutzs case he was stressing the crap out of an engine with nitrous I think and producing over 1,000 HP and his spring pressure is more than a flat tappet cam could tolerate.
In the case of DDDenny's friend we only know there was a failure........maybe several or all lifters. What we don't know is the cause of the failure. If it's possible to make roller lifters that can live in 1,000/3,000 HP race engines with astronomical spring pressures, then any properly built street race combo should be reliable. Consider what Jeff was able to do because he had a roller cam and roller lifters. Even though it broke, it didn't ruin his cam or his engine. I assume DDDenny's friend didn't ruin his cam or engine, and if it was a manufacturer defect, he probably got replacements. Without complete information it's not possible to reach a logical conclusion about why there was a failure.

 

Sounds like the way I’ve always done it too, Bones. STP and white grease. Maybe we got lucky?

 

Couldn’t be lucky “ all” those times! I don’t know how many engines I’ve built in my almost sixty year career, but its been quite a few.

I always kept a 350 Chevy, ready to go in my shop. Sold a bunch of them.





Bones

 

When I first started as an apprentice in an IH ag tractor dealer service dept, one of the mechanics there used Lubriplate white lithium grease on everything he rebuilt. He smeared it not only on the cams and lifters, but on the main & rod bearings too, and everything else. It was what he picked up in the service (Navy I believe) as a mechanic. Later on we were both in a training class at Cummins on the B & C series engines when they were just released. During the class we tore down a B series 6 cylinder, to see the guts up close and in person; then put it back together. During the reassembly process the discussion turned to what to use to lubricate an engine and the advice was to just use whatever oil was going to be used in the engine when it went to work. Just lubricate everything liberally with oil only. Or an engine assembly lube was OK to use. My buddy mentioned that he liked to use the Lubriplate white grease and the instructor could not have been more serious about DON'T DO THAT!! The grease will not dissolve into the oil, it will clump up, and tend to plug up filters and could plug any small oil lube passages. It's a bad idea. That's my take on it, I was taught not to use it.

 

Cam Research offers a cam and lifter break-in service. They primarily deal in Fords but I'm sure they would break-in a brand-x cam.

 

Billet rollers are not street flat tappets. Lutz and his racing buddies are running spring pressures and lift numbers that are out of sight even for a billet cam to handle. Not so much as the cam but the lifters. Aren't we talking street flat tappets here? Put moly lube on the lobes and bottom of the lifters and oil it up good as you would any engine re-build and fire it! The reason I mentioned not letting it idle,(flat tappet) was to make sure it had sufficient oil pressure as soon as possible after pre-oiling the engine of course. Dry starts on any new engine is your enemy. Bye. Lippy

 

Hey now, define "brand x"

 

Before the cam sellers included a packet of cam break-in lube I always used a mix of STP and lubriplate white grease. Never had a problem 'till I once installed a hi-lift Crane cam in a 327...had a 310 degree duration! I didn't check for coil bind and I ruined the cam....coil bind!..replaced it with a cam of less lift and checked for coil bind....ok. It ran for years.
I once bought a 72 nova with a 307......already had a flat cam. I replaced it with a 350 HP 327 cam and lifters. No problems, using my STP/white grease mix.
I now use a tube of aftermarket ZZDP in my Pontiac with .490 lift. No coil bind [see? I learned a lesson and always check now] Got about 10,000 miles with no problem. BTW, I used the cam-lube sent with the Lunati cam when I put it together....

 

The lifter bore's may be in a different place on the other block the cam and lifters are installed in.

 

Cams and many many parts seem to have fallen into the off shore production mode . There used to be a term flame hardened , I suspect newer off shore parts are not meeting the same flame hardened process as older good old USA made parts were built to . Cummins Diesel is a USA company , it’s uses many many off shore , parts if not all of them in building the B series engine . It seems to be quality control , is the answer . You pay peanuts you are goin to get monkeys .

 

I have been running synthetic oils, transmission oil, and gear lube, in all my engines since 1978, and have never had a problem with synthetic oils in any of my engines. The AmsOil Synthetic racing oil I used (they have improved it since), had 4 or more times the film strength of the regular premium oils of the day.
I might also state, that in the late 70s and early 80s, GM had severe cam warranty problems, and it was common to have to replace them as early as 35,000 miles. I used to have the GM special notice, that I got from a service manager friend, but I have lost track of it. If the customer didn't complain, he ended up paying for the new cam.
I still used the AmsOil premium racing oil, because I don't put much mileage on my stuff, and it has better anti galling properties.
When I was still flying, I also used the FAA approved Amsoil synthetic in my airplane as well. The engine cylinder head temperature and oil temp were considerably reduced when compared to standard aviation oil. My specific fuel consumption also improved.
Amsoil has been selling a full synthetic called Z-Rod, for older flat tappet engines, with more zinc as part of the additive package. I am reasonably certain that the other brands of synthetics have a similar product.
When using a high quality synthetic, the engine will run so clean, that you would be able to eat out of the oil pan of even a high mileage engine.
Bob

 

The 350 I now have in my Ford was an interim engine I used for 6 races in my stock car in 1984. No time to swap in a cam and lifters, did the poly locks and did a quick and dirty valve adjustment. It had good pull to it and got me a top 5 and a top 10 finish. It was only 30 years later I tore it down and found 3 almost round lobes on the cam.

 

So with a street roller cam all the worry pretty much goes out the window, just your favorite brand and correct viscosity of the current rating motor oil?

 

When the OEMs went to roller cams they were able to remove the zinc that was affecting emissions, Didn't need it. Not to mention a reduction of internal heat, more power & better MPG.

 

Good point! With "manufacturing tolerances" the chance of all 16 lifer bores being in exactly the same spots is probably tiny.

 

Agree with you ..........

 

I always pre lube either with a drill motor on the oil pump, or the special rigging I have to push oil into the engine via a oil galley.






Bones

 

In the late fall of 65 my dads 64 Pk with a 283 developed a flat exhaust lobe. The intake charge diluted the oil and the engine was junk. He purchased a rebuilt short block from sears. $125. it was bored .060 with a 010 crank. Reground cam. I installed it using 1 new lifter and 7 old ones. Just did not know any better. it was really lubed with that white grease. I lubed the lifters with the excess oozing from the crank bearings. 10W 40 Valvoline oil. prelubed before starting. And it worked great. That cam never wore down. The engine lasted a 100,000 and went down in a short time when it went. Started smoking. I tore it down and a pressed in wrist pin had come loose and wore a deep groove in one cyl wall. Those pistons made their way into another 283. I bought some I think Nylon plugs to go in the wrist pins.

 

They didn't remove the zddp from oil, they just reduced the amount in it. Most oils still have 600-800 ppm which is adequate for most street flat tappet engines.

 

I know it's a old posting BUT...

That's how I was taught in high school.
My Shop teacher always used STP or Honey Oil (same as STP different name) When I rebuilt my 350 SBC engine for my Z/28 back in 1996 I used STP on everything that moved when putting the engine together.
I put in a Competition Cam's 280 230/480 cam and lifter set, with WP Sportmens II 64cc Heads & TRW forged pistons 125 pop-ups and Pete Jackson gear drive cam button all the good stuff a Country Boy could afford. I used a little hand held Eagle pump oil can to pump up all my Lifter's. I used 20W50 oil and a K&N oil filter and after the engine was together just before start up used a old broken flat blade screwdriver and electric drill to pump up the oil throughout the engine. (*I DID NOT USE the Comp Cam's black gritty break in lube that came with the cam & lifter kit*).
I used ONLY the STP on the Cam and Lifter's just like on everything else inside the engine that moved and had NOT ONE problem breaking in the engine.

The Cam & Lifter's Did Not Wipeout.

I put together engines in Highschool this way (6 engines) back in 1977-79 and again in my little Engine Shop in the mid 1990's 10 SB Chevy engines and 2 Chevy BB 454's.
I NEVER had any engine problems, NO Cam or Lifter failures in any of the Engines I rebuilt. I sold all my mildly built street Engines to customers and never had any returned or any complaints.

As other have said was I LUCKY?

I Do Not Think So...

STP & or Honey Oil did the job it was supposed to, and that was keeping all the parts lubricated during the Rebuild and up to the first start up until the engine was broken in after the twenty minutes of run time.
I used Lunati Cam's, Competition Cam's, GM Cam's, TRW Cam's and Crower Cam's with their lifters and some with Rhoads anti pump up lifter's as well.
No oil additives mixed in with the 20W50 motor oil (ONLY the STP or Honey Oil on the moving part's)

1Nimrod

 

Member them old crane cams in the 60s they came with a can of GM EOS in the box with instructions on how to use it ! Old Harvey crane musta knew something ???

 

In the '60s ZDDP wasn't a problem. It's something that came after OEM roller cams came out that didn't need the zinc that was also increasing emissions. Has been reports in the past that STP & EOS have been reformulated,