Technical disc brake swap issue..still got a soft pedal

I don't know.......

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When you squeeze off a line and get a very solid pedal that's normally a sign of air.
It just seems like there's something whacked with these calipers and mounts.
When I've seen caliper bushings seized up (usually corroded solid) the outer pad wears out quickly because the caliper body assy can no longer slide on the pins (caliper bolts) and keeps that pad dragging, same issue as if the bushings/pins were missing, wrong bolts installed, etc., the inner pad still works somewhat as the caliper piston is still moving in and out as long as the piston is not also seized. Through all this the pedal still feels firm and although braking effort /stopping distance is affected, most people don't even notice. I've had plenty of vehicles come into the shop because the pads finally wore down to metal and they heard the noise, but that noise was their only clue something was wrong.
I just don't see the bolts/ pins causing a pedal like what has been described. I think the pedal would still come up solid.

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"keeps that pad dragging, same issue as if the bushings/pins were missing, wrong bolts installed, etc."
Meant to say same as if bushings were missing, not "bushings/pins". Duh...


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Here’s a different manufacturers kit, on a 65 Chevy II spindle

 

That looks right

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Ok so what’s all different?
Rotor to spindle distance I see.

 

Caliper bolts/ pins for one thing. In pic #6 you can see where the problem car caliper bolt is threaded on the inside and outside of the caliper mount. The metal for the mount looks pretty cheesy to me too

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The top pin (inside right) is also the bushing for the caliper to slide on, looks like it is screwed on to the threaded bolt(?), not sure what the deal is there

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I think someone somewhere along the way suggested making sure they were free to slide. Definitely do this


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Possibly, the "cheap & quick" fix keeping this caliper setup would be a couple of 2lb residuals (1 @each caliper) as close to the caliper as you can get. I would not use these over fixing it right, but not sure there is any other fix with these calipers other than residuals. I'd be surprised if this was corrected keeping these parts, but I've been wrong before like everyone else, called learning!

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the master would have them built in no need to add more.as I wrote in earlier post just replace the calipers pretty simple to do.but then again maybe to simple

 

I definitely agree with replace the calipers, I believe they are the problem and don't see where they will ever work properly. The residuals will keep enough pressure at the calipers to keep them from draining back. I don't think the mc will keep that same amount of drain-off at the calipers

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better check your daily as they have been like that for years and years since the factory installed disc brakes.

 

Yeah, I know, just thinking with the way the pedal is "normal" (I guess as best as it gets) with clamping the lines off, that light residuals could help out a little more

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But in the end I believe the fix here is a change out of calipers to correct this one

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exactly some want the answer to be something out of left field and costs a small fortune rather then a simple low cost solution oh well life goes on

 

Yeah, maybe to some of those swap side to side and put hose on top and bleeder on the bottom calipers you suggested earlier.

Now a more on point question for those paying attention...

Who knows why you can get a rotor thickness in 0.81, (thin) 1.04” (stock) and 1.25” (thick) and all designed to work with a regular old belly button GM metric caliper?
Who knows why these are even manufactured?


Who know what might things look like if there’s thin pads on a stock rotor? Or stock pads on a thin rotor? Or even thin pads on a thin rotor?

And what’s the pad thickness? Yellow, red, rotor thickness and what’s that other doohickey ?

 

Way more questions than answers. This has to be addressed at some point as the problems could be directly/indirectly related.

 

Nope (but could offer some guesses, but won't), and intrigued to know! Is there a prize?
Chris

 

"Yeah, maybe to some of those swap side to side and put hose on top and bleeder on the bottom calipers you suggested earlier."

31vicky, as I replied to this, I thought the calipers had 2 bleeders on each, the reason I suggested swapping side to side to bring the hoses up. I would not tell anyone to put the ONLY bleeder on the bottom, since air goes to the top and fluid is at the bottom. Can't possibly bleed the brakes of air this way.
As I stated, "my bad" (my apology), I didn't expect an aftermarket caliper to have only one bleeder, and didn't look close enough at the bleeder. Dip me in shit & hang me for stinking. Guess some people never reply too fast......

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"What's that" is a great question! Almost looks like some kind of metal tab stuck between the rotor and pad(??) Would like to know what that is too. Almost looks like a pad anti rattle, or low indicator put in the wrong place.... weird!

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One other thing with this car, going back to the camber change; I had a '64 Impala that had a sudden camber change like this, but I was in a hurry one day and drove the car anyway without checking it, when I hit a bumpy road and the bottom ball joint blew apart and left me stranded, my Impala front end on the ground with the lower control arm bent up from hitting the ground.
I'd say take a really good look at your ball joints and control arm bushings before driving it again.

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Fine,,, show me what you “thought” it was.
I have never seen a single piston floating caliper with 3 ports.
Those are gm metric calipers.
I’ve seen after market calipers based off of GM metric that are ambidextrous fitting either right or left. One part number One casting and same machining with same threads for hose and bleeder( just 1 bleeder). They aren’t cheap because they usually have different bore sizes for changing bias and brake balance or clamping pressures. Sometimes you’re turning left when the brakes are active.

 

Not getting into a pissing contest over nothing

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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1959-1964-...ke-conversion-kit-drilled-rotors/350464389576
Hey, Vincentnova, is this the kit you purchased?

 

I don't come here to get into pissing contests or any of that, long done with that, total waste of time. Was ok when I was a child.
Replying to what is a pissing contest is a waste of time and childish (as this, my bad).
Everyone has their own opinions and approaches based on their own life experiences, how they did things, what was found to work for them and what didn't. Some guys accomplish the same result via different paths. Always good to listen FIRST and try to understand what you are being told, rather than jumping right in 'cuz you're always right..... you're not. No one is right 100% of the time, nor are they always wrong. Just because they have a different way doesn't make them wrong, only a different approach.
Sometimes ALL of us jump the gun and hit that "send key" realizing we should have slowed down and reread or rethought our process. Everyone else will let you know you screwed up soon enough, SOME more than others, and some don't let go (get a life). I'm sure you have never done that.

My last thoughts on the brakes if in my shop:
"Possible" quick & easy fix: 2lb residuals (NOT recommend)
Best path: replace the calipers

With the talk about thickness of pads /rotors somehow causing this problem - ain't happening; what happens to pads and rotors as you drive your vehicle and use the brakes... they wear down and get thinner, BUT you STILL always have a FIRM pedal, right down to metal on metal, and sometimes so far PAST metal on metal you have to wonder how the car even stopped, as in pads/ rotors worn so thin it's just incredible. I have seen pistons POP out because the pads and rotors were so thin, but guess what; STILL had a firm pedal.
UNLESS from the VERY START your NEW pads/ rotors are oversized / undersized, AND do NOT fit PROPERLY, as in your pistons compressed/ extended too far, they will give you a good pedal, PROVIDED you have gotten ALL air out of the system (and YES,I know that will NOT happen if the bleeders are on the bottom).

When you clamp off a line and get a firm pedal, you have air in the line, and in this situation I think the residual valves MIGHT help, but I wouldn't do it. Fix the air problem or replace the calipers.
Period.
Jim

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And my apologies to everyone else, I will not ramble on like this ever again
Sorry!
Jim

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Anyways the calipers natural position and being ready to efficiently and effectively work from is more to the outside or away from the vehicle centerline than the pics Vincent nova posted.
Normally with floating calipers, As the pads wear the pistons resting position increases the distance out of the calipers. As the pads wear the caliper body or “casting” resting position moves towards the vehicle center line.

A quick visual check on pad wear is to look thru the wheel at the distance the pin protrudes from the casting. Not an actual brake inspection but more of a walk around check list “pre flight”. The pics posted would be a high alert and priority on that quick visual.

 

I worked for Chevrolet dealers for years.
Looking at the situation above , I think the top bolt from the caliper mount to the spindal should be counter sunk to give you a movement for the rotor to be closer to the center line of the car ( wrong rotors for the application ).
Next I remember doing a brake jobs on Malibus with the factory set up and it would take a long time to get the (spongey ) feel out of the brakes using the factory parts ( road test and burnish the brakes in ).Always seemed spongey.
Next: that's why they make larger bore metric calipers, because the original ones lack the proper pressure to squeeze the pads for proper braking. In post 228 that is a wear or noise senser to tell you need to have your pads checked
Just my 2 cents.
Ron.

 

yes................