Hot Rods Help....Another Y Block question

I am working on a basket-case 55 TBird. It came to me in parts and I am slowly trying to resurrect it. It has a 292 YBlock that was sent out to the machine shop, along with the cylinder heads, crank, rods, heads, rockers and valves. The block and heads were cleaned up and pressure tested. The block bored 60 over with new pistons and rings. Heads redone with new valves, springs and rocker shafts. I got it back and put it all together using the YBlock rebuild book and of course, the various YBlock internet sites. Got it installed in the frame and wanted to get it started before I started hanging everything else on it.



It seemed a little hard to turn over by hand, but I attributed that to the new rings and compression. When I installed the starter and tried, is seemed to turn over slowly without the plugs in it and very slowly with the plugs in it. I thought it may be the 60 year old starter, so I rebuilt that...no joy. So I bought a new 12volt starter and installed that. A little better, but not spinning it fast enough to start it. So I went looking for other issues. I have consistently pressurized the oil system and have oil up to the heads. Some folks I talked to have suggested the rings might be too tight, but according to my notes, they are within spec. Others have suggested the pushrods being adjusted too tight. So, I pulled the valve covers and pulled all the pushrods. They all look good, but I have 2 different types of pushrods. One is skinny and solid and the other is fat and tubular but they are both the same length..







I think one is old style and one is new... But that got me thinking and I remembered that the block is not original to the car. My research shows that it is a 1959 292. The pushrods are for a 1955 292, while 1956 thru 1962 uses slightly shorter pushrods. The heads are 1955 292 TBird heads. Could the difficulty in spinning the engine be a result of the pushrods being too long? If not, then I guess I would need to tear it back down and build it back up again, double checking my clearances on all the bearing surfaces.



Thanks for any help or suggestions you may have!



Frank

 

That may not be a bad idea to take it apart and check.
It could have a tight bearing or something like that.
It should still turn over without too much effort,, seeing as how it is a new build.
I think they recommend to have around 25 ft.lbs or less required to turn over a new engine.
And some say less,,,,,it is not written in stone that I know of .

I would remove the heads and then see how much it takes to turn it.
If still tight,,,remove the pistons,,,,,go from there .
Then remove the timing chain if necessary.
The crank by itself should almost be effortless to turn,,the only load would be from the rear main seal.

Good luck man.

Tommy

 

No, but try spinning it with out the push rods, just to satisfy you.

It’s kinda late to mention here, now, but when I assemble an engine , I check everytime I add a component. That is, when I put the crank in,I spin it, then when I do my first torque step, I spin it. Rods, spin it, cam spin it. This way you know if something is to tight or machined wrong, or wrong part.

Did you do this?






Bones

 

If you built it.... How did it turn over when you were assembling it? If it's that tight now it should have been then.

Auto trans or manual? Maybe have something binding up like a convertor that wasn't seated all the way in the pump.

I woul think of other things before just ripping it apart as has been suggested. That is a lot of work.... And expense ..... To do on a whim.

 

Yes, and took notes of the ring clearances. That's why this surprised me.

Thanks! Back to the drawing board!!

 

Thanks Tommy!

 

It seemed free and turned smoothly. I will throw the torque wrench on it and see what it says.

It is an auto trans. I will double check the convertor. Thanks!!!

 

How clean is your main ground point? How strong is the battery?

 

Putting power directly to the starter via the starting circuit on the battery charger.

 

Using a battery too? If not, there is your problem. Ya got volts, but not enough amps to turn it. Put a hot 12 volt battery on it and it should turn easily.

 

Ring gaps would need to zero on a cold engine and you have needed to pound in the pistons for that to be a problem. You said it isn’t so I’m guessing they are all at .016” or slightly larger.
I know it’s a pain but as mentioned above I assemble a crank in the block the first time with no rear seal. It should turn over easy by using the counterbalance weights. I start from there. If good remove the crank and add the seal.

From where you are now I would remove the push rods and spark plugs and spin it with the starter motor. If it’s easy look into the heads. If hard look at the rods. The pan in a bird come off ez.. good luck.

 

Bama , nailed it! You need a good hot battery to spin a new engine. And some times even a little help from the battery charger. Check this, it could be your problem.

I just when back and reread your original post. You are working on a 55 T-bird, they were 6 volt cars. If you haven converted to to 12 volts , using a 12 volt starter on a 6 volt system , won’t work! Just a maybe.



Bones

 

You need a good high amp battery good heavy cables and clean connections.

 

I would pull the spark plugs and see what torque is required to turn it. If it’s hard to turn you need to verify that the converter is properly mated to the trans. If it’s not you could damage the transmission by cranking with more power or starting it Better to be sure.


Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Rope seal??

 

Actually a 6 Volt starter has larger internals than a 12 volt. Ive used 12 volt batterys on my letter series Farmalls and the 6 volt starter works and holds up great. Actually since it spins faster the engine starts quicker and the starter doesn't grind and get hot. My 55 ford wagon is six volts. Ive disconnected as the 6 volt accessories from the starting circuit and use a 12 volt battery on it. again no problem. My first bob truck a 46 ford was 12 volt on a 6 volt starter. However a 12 volt starter will not be compatable with a 6 volt battery.

 

The only issue I've heard is sometimes the Bendix doesn't care for it.

 

Sorry, I was not clear. I am using the 12 volt, 225 amp starting circuit on the battery charger and applying the cables directly to the starter. There is nothing else hooked up.

 

neoprene

 

Time to break out the cherry picker and pull the engine out of the frame rails and start tearing into it. I measured 30-35 ft/lbs on the torque wrench to turn it over without the plugs or pushrods. I must have done something!

Thanks for all the followup guys!

 

What about the converter,,,is it likely to be tight as suggested ?
You might try and unbolt it and slip it back,,,,if you can get to it.

Tommy

 

Yep, we’ve got several vehiles/ tractors that have the six volt starter on converted 12 volt system. I used to have access to electrical parts and would convert regular GM alternators to one wire alternaters and I put them on everything and kept a couple spares.

But , you are right, a 12 volt starter won’t work on a 6 volt system. That’s why I mentioned it in his case, but I sure the OP converted the T-Bird.








Bones

 

I will definitely give that a try Tommy!

 

You made me curious as I have a complete assembled engine on a stand. It took #40 to turn the crank off dead stop and #30 to keep turning it. No spark plugs and only assembly lube on the bearings, rocker tips, and push rods. There is no oil in the engine yet and it will be primed before starting.

 

I don't know, but when I turn it with the starter, it turns slowly.

I first thought that the pushrods may have been too long and they were binding up. Now I just don't know and will take it apart and re-measure everything.

 

Jimmy six,,,that is an excellent looking engine.
Now,,,your torque readings are with it completely assembled and pushrods in also,,right ?
What about rear main,,,rope,,,,that is not bad for a completely assembled engine.

 

Toolnut,
Don’t be too quick to pull the engine,,,that torque reading is not all that high.
Even if it is 30-35 ft.lbs to turn it .
It might be on the high side,,,but not completely out of range.

Also,,,,can you disconnect the converter and then try to turn the engine with the starter,,,that might give you a direction to go.

Are you absolutely certain you don’t have a starter problem ?
I am not familiar with 6 volt to 12 volt and any issues it might cause .

Tommy

 

Before I pulled the engine I would check and make sure there is end play on the crankshaft thrust bearings. Make sure that the crank was not being bound when you bolted on the transmission.

 

You need to hook up a battery, not just a charger.

 

Bingo, egads, beat me to it! That charger won’t turn that engine! Get a good battery and put in there and then see what happens! Like I mentioned in post#12 and Bama mentioned in post#10. Do this before you pull the engine!






Bones