Got pics and stories of Ford powerd cars?

I would like to start this thread in an effort to collect in one place pictures and stories of a realitively rare occurence in todays rodding world, Ford powered hot rods. As some of you may have guessed I'm a bit of a Ford purist. Being that can have it's drawbacks when you're into hot rodding as well. I've pondered this question for most of my adult life, do Ford engines **** or not? Why do hot rodders run from them? In every racing venue Ford's seem to have held their own. In hot rodding in the US at least Fords are the red headed stepchild. During the `60's for example Ford was cutting a big wake through the drag racing world with their Thunderbolts, A/FX Mustangs, SOHC funny cars and rails and "Ohio" George's SOHC g***er. Oh there's a ton more but I'll only bore you with one more, today the NHRA has effectively banned any engine design except from the current hemi by way of a clever ruling that limits the bore centers of the cylinder block which effectively eliminates a couple of Ford based alcohol and nitro engine projects. The alcohol version was being developed by Walt Austin racing and showed great promise. In fact I have it on first hand info that the WAR Ford produced more midrange torque than any other blown alcohol engine ever tested on this particular dyno. There is no dyno capable of holding an alcohol or nitro engine at full power so peak output is always a guesstimate. I think the NHRA realizes the big Ford's potential and does not want to let it "screw up the show". The John Force version is still cooking and to date JF feels he is going to get the NHRA to approve it. We'll see.

Sorry for getting off track but I want to set the backdrop correctly. Anyway I was born in `61, just a dreaming child when alot of this history was being made. What was it like, let's hear it straight. IMHO the magazines had alot to do with "creating" some of the reality. For example, this whole small block/big block thing is a Chevy subject. I think it exists at least partly so the sbc gets compared to engines of it's own size. The problem I have with that is that I thought hotrodding was finding the biggest and most powerful engine you could and dropping it in the lightest possible car and that's the formula. I gotta think if that rule really applies the 332, 352 and 390 Ford FE engines had to fit in there somewhere. Remember this is the only engine series that won championships in NHRA top fuel, LeMans and NASCAR in the same year. There' s gotta be some merit to them if even just a little. As far as the weight comparison goes I think most would be surprised to know that an FE is within 100 lbs of an sbc and closer with an aluminium intake 'cause half the head is in the intake manifold. I know the Y-blocks aren't remembered as sterling performers but if you look back at NASCAR wins in that era (when they were real "stock" cars) the Y-blocks seemed to run right with the Chevs and everything else.

Hey enough crying on my part. I know a person has every right to build their car the way they want. For me it's dissappointment that Ford engines aren't called upon more often to power what I feel are the best Ford cars ever, the "Early Ones". Childish I guess, but that's the way it is for me. If you have a story or a picture post it up. If this thread drops to page 10 today I'll know the answer. As always thanks in advance for your interest.

 

I've always wondered this myself, and i think the real answer is tradition. Especially here on the HAMB, everyone wants to run the same engines that were being used in the past.
There are a lot of bugaboo's about Y-blocks for some reason, i love'em, you can bore a 292 to 312+ cubic inchs and 300 hp on the street isn't that hard of a number to reach. They came out before the sbc and can look just as good as any early rocket or cad with the right goodies. The FE were great motors, but i think everyone just believes that they're too heavy, they dont consider what aluminum intakes and lighter rotating ***emblies can do to cut weight. The sbf, one of my personal all time favorite motors. The truth is that it's a little new i think for "traditional" hot rods, but did you see the article in TRJ about these motors, that was a good looking and very traditionally styled small block, and all the parts were brand spanking new. Sbf's also aren't much more expensive to build then sbc of the same power thanks to the 5.0 guys.
I dont know why Blue Oval motors aren't used more often in Fords, but i know that when i see a rod at a show or in a magazine with a Ford engine in it, i take my time and enjoy the car a little bit more.

 

Key word... parts availability. A friend of mine used to say "you can walk the lenght of a dragstrip at a race, and people would give you enough parts to build a SBC". I like my engines painted blue. Fords have always had pontential, but were harder to get the good parts for. I place a lot of the blame on Ford. GM flooded the market with a great selection hiperf parts through the years. They are cheap and easy to build. But I enjoy spanking the easy to build stuff with something that took just a little more effort to build. Everyone must have their favorites. Mixing it up is what it's all about.

 

In addition to the parts availability issue, info on combinations was scarce as well. It's always been easy to ask around for advice on what to put in a Chevy engine build. Because of plentifull parts, tested combinations, SBCs are perfect for an entry level guy to get started with. It's natural to stick with what you know, so these guys stick with Chevy.

Way back when... I started Drag Racing with guys that ran Fords. As above I did the same, I still run Fords.

These days I work in a shop that restores Roadracing cars. Alot of the sports cars from the 1960s run 260 and 289ci small Fords. These cars were more than compe***ive in their day.

Craig

 

Wow! only back to page 4 I must be hitting a nerve ha- ha! Anyway here's some Ford candy, hope it's "trad" enough for ya.......

 

A few more.

 

I am a believer. See below....

 

I saw Danny Ongais race the Mickey Thompson blue car at Lions. The car was nearly unbeatable in '69 and '70.

A couple of years before, I saw the Brand Ford Special win the first PDA meet. Sixty-four car Top Fuel show. The driver was some guy named Prudhomme......

Both of these cars were cammer-powered. Boy, those were the days.....

 

Ohio George and the swap to the Malco Mustang from the Willys....that 427 SOHC!!! I gota dig up some pics! I dont know the whole Mustang story, but that car had the look, I mean the engine!

reed

 

In 1964 the B/SR cl*** was won at the NHRA US Nationals in Indy by a guy from Detroit named Loren McCombs with a 31 A roadster channled over Deuce rails with a 312 Y block,......

Here it is in the trophy run, that's it in the far lane ( the ugly one)


And here is how it was found last year,.....


And after throwing some axles under it and draging it home in a snow storm

 

Oh man! What a find. You're restoring this car I trust? It'd be real cool to see that brought back to life. Good luck!

 

Here's one example

 

Over the years I have used a lot of Ford engines in Hot Rod Projects, I currently have a Deuce 3/W with a 351W/FMX, and a 34 3/W with a 351W/C-6.

 

I believe in the FE, The true definition of a muscle car use to always be a big block in a mid-sized car, if thats true was the thunderbolt fairlane the first muscle car? people tell me no the GTO or the chevelle started it all. alot of the thunderbolts were butchered into altered wheelbase cars, and serious AFX cars with straight axles hanging out front. I have tons of pics but I'll have resize more later.

 

Here's a couple of Ol' George

First the Green Malco



And the later red one



This image was captured at Thompson Drag Raceway (Thompson, Ohio) on May 7, 1972. This is the quickest and fastest Blown G***er "Ohio" George ever created. The craftsmanship was incredible. The piece was a real work of art and historically important. It was painted a rich "Mr. Gasket" red and the technically superior dominator was powered by a extremely potent Ford Boss 429 which was twin turbo charged. The blowers were totally radical and trick. The huge round exhaust pipes exited above and in front of the front wheels and the thing sounded very strange. Even though the left front wheel is well of the ground, the car didn't leave the line quite as hard as some of the more conventional G***ers but as those turbos wound up, WOW, George had everybody covered. This car was the center of a huge controversy about the direction of NHRA Drag Racing. To Turbo, or not to Turbo, that was the question of the time (1972).

 

The biggest reason? Ford parts interchangeability ****S.

The only thing that swaps between a 289 and a 351W are the heads, and even that requires drilling the head bolt holes or custom head bolts, depending which way you go. Intake? Nope. Oil pan? Nope. Distributor? Nope. Flywheel? Nope. Timing cover? You got it.

All the Y-block and FE stuff is so rare and expensive now that it takes real dedication to attempt a build. MEL, Cammer, and hi-po 427/406 stuff may as well just be a figment of your imagination. Flatheads are great in old rods, but it takes a wizard to make 200hp with one. Clevelands were fantastic for 2yrs before they became smogger engines like the 385-series.

I think Ford designed completely new bracketry and components for every engine in every model, for every year. I've yet to see a s****ed-together front dress system that has its belts lined up.

The only thing you have to remember with an SBC is that the head cooling and engine imbalance is different on a 400.

 

You've made some good points Gotgas. I'd like to address a couple of them. Ford has had a tremendous variety of engine designs that's true, BUT those various Ford engines served duty in Fords, Mercs, Edsels, light and heavy trucks, industrial and marine applications. At the same time GM has had completely different engine designs for each of it's car lines. Its all about perception, and I guess rodders wanna percieve Fords as difficult. I like to think Ford has given us a smorgasborg of engine choices. The sbf example you cite mentions the 289 and 351W. Don't forget that the 221, 260, 302 and the later 5.0 version are almost completely interchangeable. Yes Ford recognized they could improve driveline rigidity by changing the bellhousing flange in `64 but that really is a non- issue because the early bells were/are easy to get. When the 351W came along with it's longer stroke Ford raised the deck height to maintain a long enough conn rod and keep a good L/R ratio. This is the correct way to build an engine. They also intended the 351W to serve duty in heavier apps thus the robust beef up Ford built into it. The bigger headbolts, larger dist shaft, bigger oil pump, beefier rods and on an on are all good things if you want to know the truth when you reach higher on the displacement scale. This is precisely why 351W's run forever and can stand a tremendous amount of abuse. Interchangeability is not that bad since the front cover, water pump, pulleys, ext manifolds, valve covers, transmissions, balancers, carburation, ignition wiring and parts interchange easily. I dont see what's so hard. Certainly a builder who has no problem splitting a whishbone and welding in motor mount stands would'nt find it out of his realm of capability to match up the Ford parts he would need. Many GM into Ford installs require quirky things too. Stuff like dropped drag links, special adapters that move the starter from the driver's side to the p***enger side. Some like the Cads and Buicks are a little tough to find manuel trans flywheels and bellhousings, oh and you wanna talk about being able to walk into a parts store and get a water pump. Try to get one for a 287 Pont a 318 Poly or a 371 Olds off the shelf. Not gonna happen but I never hear anyone complain about those only Fords. Harumphhhh!

For what it's worth Y-Block and FE engines are comparitively cheap. I'll bet I could buy a 292, 360 or 390 Ford for the same or less than those oh so desireable Chevys. Just mention 327 or 350 four bolt main and watch the dollar signs spin in the junk dealers eyes. BTW if I'm not mistaken the 283 and early 327's have different size crank journals and so do the 400's so there are some bugaboo's there too. MELs are awesome for sure but they are a bit rare. Oh but the 385's now there's gem. Dirt cheap, yet very easy to make 1+ hp per cube with run of the mill parts and in their case that's damn near 500. I've got one of those 150 dollar DOVE 460's laying in wait in my workshop. That gnarly thing needs to come out and play soon. I just saw where Speedway has introduced a 552" stroker kit with half decent parts for the very reasonable sum of $1295.00. That's sbc cheap!

You pegged it on the front dress though. Ford should have their collective ***es kicked for not addressing this very frustrating situation. I'd like to see Ford publish a book that breaks it all down for each engine. Tells what to look for, and what to look out for, and most DOES'NT TRY TO SELL YOU SOMETHING! Angelo Giampetroni formally of Gratiot Auto Supply and more recently of Ford Racing promised this book would happen but I've never seen it. Maybe I'll fricken do it myself, that's an idea if it'll make a difference.





A Barris built 3- winder with a 368 Lincoln for your viewing pleasure

 

You and me would get along fine!

 

Geeezzzz thanks !, and you don't even know about the R code 68 Stang, the S code 68 GT Torino, or that I worked at Gratiot in the 70's for Angelo, but I have to confess I have used GM engines over the years to, and I have two big buckets full of SBF pullies,....... (for obvious reasons)

(BTW while I worked at Gratiot, I owned a 68 Shelby GT-500 KR conv. for a short time, until a young guy just had to have it, I sold it for under 3 grand,
Wow that was a ton of cash for that time,........ I really cut a fat hog on that deal, huh ?)

 

All good points, Henry. Remember that the '82+ 302 HOs use different cranks and engine balance, firing order, etc. lol There seems to ALWAYS be some minor nuance in a SBF build that gets in the way. I haven't even gotten into the small/big block bellhousing issues with C6s, and the multiple case/pan/converter/bellhousing/flexplate issues on a C4.

No doubt about it, SBCs are easier. And if you just want something to cruise, it is tough to beat the combination of power, reliability, parts availability, and interchangeability inherent in a small Chevy. And I've never owned one.

 

I refused to put a chevy in my 35 pickup, heres my 351w

 

Ford did NOT have a clue ... most of the time ... Late 50's, the 60's and the early 70's ...

I always ran Chevrolets. Started with SBC's, then a 409. Had a few BBC 396/427 cars in the mid 60's. In 1969, I went to the Ford dealer to see about a new Mustang with the 428 Cobra Jet option. Bad idea , to get the 428, you had to get the Mach I ... with all kinds of stuff you did not need ... It listed at 43 or 44 Hundred and the dealer had to order it. No discount to speak of either . I went to the Chevrolet dealer and bought a new 1969 Nova SS 396/375 with Aluminum heads, 4 speed and 4.10 Posi rear for around 3 grand ... off the lot. In stock ... no special order. Plain little ECON box with a big engine ...
And it was WAY QUICKER than a 69 Mustang Cobra Jet 428
A 69 Z28 was almost a grand less than a 69 Boss 302 Mustang.

Same for parts ... 427 Chevrolet BBC blocks ... easy to come by then ... 427 FE blocks ... rare and expensive. FE motor stuff was expensive ( even in the South ... Holman Moody country ) FE's were heavy too. The iron intake on a FE ... give you a backache trying to lift it off the car. And you had to remove all the pushrods ...

Sometimes ... things change ...

In the late 80's and early 90's ... Chevrolet lost their way ...
IMHO ... Look at a 90 Camaro and a 90 Mustang 5.0 LX car. The Mustangs have about taken over the street around here. Light, Quick ... and somewhat easy to work on. These young guys will be Ford guys ... for a long time ... just like my buddies and myself will most likely continue to use what we know best .... CHEVROLET ...

 

Ford motors stopped being cool about three seconds after the last Flathead rolled off the ***embly line.

 

My sons '49 shoebox has a 302 Mustang,and my '49 Merc has a 351 Cleavland.

 

I had'nt seen the last three posts in this thread. Thanks for taking time to respond!

Deuce I know I will never change you're mind and frankly I'm not trying to. I've seen pictures of you're previous cars both here and on the Ford Barn. You have real nice stuff, some of the most beautiful Fords ever built. The points you make above I'm sure are perfectly valid, but from my standpoint I'm not sure how the leap is almost always made to Chevrolet from Ford when repowering one of these beauties. What you're saying in the heart of you're post is that visit to the Ford dealership was a bad idea. Of course it was because you were already a staunch consumer of Chevrolet performance products. Which is precisely my point. Why if you and most other rodders are such avid Chevrolet enthusiasts do you choose to diminish the iden***y of most of the finest Fords ever built. My wife asked me once after hearing me ***** about it one too many times she said " well why do they do that, does'nt Chevy have any good bodies? You should be glad that all those Chevy guys like Fords so much they want to make them to their liking?" That's simple question is actually as close to the truth of the matter as I have ever come. These old Fords do not have brand iden***y like you saw in the `60's and later. The Fords were just raw material to be fashioned by the builder, they transcended brand lines.

On the surface I fear that some readers of this thread with think me childish or corney for beating this useless drum. I challenge you though to think of it in some other way, like say for instance Harley- Davidson. What would the boys say if the `ole V-Twin was being wholesale replaced by a compe***ors "cheaper" replacement.

Finally Deuce while I can't dispute you're claims about musclecar prices and values in the `60's. I do know if you bought that 428 Cobra Jet you would now have excellent return on your investment now. I have never owned a desireable musclecar, only beaters `cause i was poor in my youth. I can only comment that the Boss 302 was tested to be quicker than the Chev 302 and was far more successful for it's intended use which was Trans-Am racing. The 428 Cobra- Jet was known to be one of the quickest musclecars of the `60's. I'm sure you lighter Nova could cream it but i wonder about those aluminum heads. Were they factory? I don't know why the FE gets hung as being a heavy engine. The intake manifold if cast iron was heavy for sure because it included a good portion of the cylinder heads. Bolt on an aluminum and the engine loses about 70 lbs. Ford was employing thinwall casting techniques to their engines at that time. Sometimes too thin when you talk about overboring cylinders. They also developed some great cast iron foundry technologys with high quality iron formulas that were durable and tough. Pick up a bbc head and then an Fe, then do the same with the blocks and tell me which on is heavier. You'll be suprised! Oh and one other thing like i said earlier it's all about perception. Yes you gotta pull the pushrods to remove the intake on the FE. It's easy `cause the rockers are all held down by 4 bolts on a common shaft. I notice that no one gives Ford credit in the case of the small blocks and the 429- 460's for being able to pull the intake without removing the distributer. Not to mention the thing is convieniently mounted up front.

 

Yes you're right!

 

Deffinitly hit the nail on the head here! I put a 302 SBF in my 35 Ford PU, and a 390 FE in my 49 Ford F1 PU. Its a nightmare every damed time! And dont dare change anything out, or the games start all over again.

For the Small Block alone: I had 3 different C4 Bell housings at one time, three different flex plates, and two different Torque converters, just to try to get one damed SBF to run. This was through donations and junk yard buys only to get the wrong damed one each time. I had 4 different crank pulleys and 5 different water pump pulleys before giving up and buying a March Products set that they matched up. I had three different water pumps, two different alternator brackets, and two different power steering pumps and brackets before switching to manual steering. I have had three different Oil Pans, and three different Timing chain covers!

Im a Ford person, I love Fords, have always owned a Ford.......... but Id sure like to take a baseball bat to the knees of each engineer that had the brilliant idea to make a little bolt pattern change each damed year to the Small Block Ford.

 

I'm gonna get in trouble I'm supposed to be rebuilding the kids bathroom and here I am peeking back in here at the HAMB.

Dirk, being a Ford man you must know that the exterior of the small block changed little as far as bolt patterns go over the years. What did change was the variety and configuration of the ch***is that they were installed into. Hence the different types of pans and covers. No one disputes the pulley mess but the easiest way to do a matched set is to buy a matched set from a complete engine. Another little known tip is to call on the Ford marine engine service known as Ford Power Products to supply you simple and reasonibly priced matching pullies and brackets. The 3-bolt, 4- bolt crank pulley change can be overcome simply by redrilling the pulley to the other pattern if neccesary. They are located precisely off a machined hub on the balancer so you don't have to be perfect. These differnt bellhousings you refer to I'm sure are the 157 and 164 tooth flywheel versions. The 157 wheel is handy because it is smaller in diameter with a less bulky bellhousing. Perfect for installations into tight trans tunnel areas and header clearance. It does'nt do a Ford man's cause any good to seem to validate what the bowtie boys are saying it just convinces them their right. All it takes is some effort. The parts are there and it's worth it to me to try attempt the seemingly inconceiveable "a Ford in a Ford".

 

Amusing "story", when I'm walking around at a car show or cruz nite with Roadstar and I see a Ford engine in a car, I point at it and say in a most innocent blonde tone "Look honey, the distributor thingy is in the wrong place".
I always get a rise outta the owner if he was within ear shot.

 

I swear when I saw your name pop up on this thread Denise I felt a sense of honor. A thread that I started seems to be getting attention of the HAMB legends. I gotta meet you face to face someday!