Projects 34 chev wires on early Ford 5 on 5.5?

Hello to everyone. Just a quick Introduction, I am Josh and live in Brisbane Australia. I find myself reading and researching on the forum here quite often and thought it time I became a member.

Im in the early stages of a build and could use some advice. Its a bit different for a build here in Australia. Im building a 28 chevrolet as a special body, ( boat tail speedster, think bugatti type 35) and am piecing parts together to ***emble the frame before continuing the body. Its to be very much a period appearance build but very much a hotrod.
I look at what I can find that suits the appearance of what I want to accomplish plus I have to meet hot rod build regulations for the car to be legal. As aftermarket parts go most items are Ford related hence I have a socal drilled I beam, socal 37 ford spindles. Genuine Ford hydraulic brakes which came from my Grandfather ( and are direct fit to the spindles) and new lincoln style drums from boling brothers.
Im still to buy front hubs and rear axles I havent got to yet.
Exceptionally hard to obtain here, my grandfather gave me a set of 34 chev wires that I wish to utilise. Obviously I have an issue now with stud pattern, the chev wheels being 5 on 4.25 and the ford gear being 5 on 5.5. Adaptors are not legal use here.
Im looking for suggestions as how to sort this problem. I can have the drums redrilled thats no problem.
Can I buy a chev pattern hub to suit the Ford style spindle? Is simply re drilling a Ford hub to Chev pattern an option? Im not sure the wheels can be redrilled as the centers are pressed for support around the stud holes. I also guess I will need wire wheel supports.
Any thoughts are appreciated!
Cheers,
Josh

 

Josh, the Volvo 200,740,760 series have that bolt pattern. I remember seeing the earlier Volvo hubs from the 122 being used on the early Ford spindles not sure if the later ones fit but worth checking out.

 

The Ford hubs can be drilled to the Chevy pattern; but they are kinda thin between the original stud bosses; another down under guy told me his engineer wouldn't approve them. F-1 hubs with their thick flange worked for him. You also need to make centering ring as the hub register has a smaller diameter than the Ford drum. There is a 1/16" difference in offset; but that is inconsequential.

 

As you want to keep the ford drum brakes you would to have to use 37 Ford hub to keep the drum in the correct position. Looks like you should be able redrill 37 hubs to 4 1/4 PCD. Best thing you can do to try and find someone local to you that has a suitable hub you can check.

 

Just found this if you decide to go with F1 hubs

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/posts/1596912/

 

Studebakerjoe, interesting idea on the volvo hubs. I can find information on the hub bore center sizes for the volvo but not the Ford hubs to compare. Ill do some more research, if only out of curiosity.
As brading has pointed out there is the issue of keeping the drum in the correct position. And thanks mate for the post on fitting F1 hubs. Great information in there on bearings to suit the conversion.

RICH B the F1 hubs may be a good way to go and machining a ring to center the hub should be simple enough. The hard part is obtaining F1 hubs! I can obviously buy the reproduction early ford hubs to suit but seems no reproduction F1 hubs? I have a friend who may have some contacts in the U.S to obtain a second hand pair.
Cheers,
Josh

 

37 Fords use wide five drums integral to the hub, not what you’d want. Need to go to 40 or later hubs.


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Just curious -- my understanding was that all Chevy wire wheels were 6 on 5.5" pcd, and some standard models had artillary wheels that were 5 on 4,25". Ford wires were 5 on 5.5". Light Mopars, 5 on 4.5". 6 on 5.5" is a common lug pattern through today on Chevy, as well as Japanese pick-ups. Although the same bolt pattern, Chevy wires need a spacer to fit to many of these, due to interference with the outer cir***ference of the drum.

Are the referenced Chevy 5 by 4.25" wires peculiar to south of the equator?

 

Just curious -- my understanding was that all Chevy wire wheels were 6 on 5.5" pcd, and some standard models had artillary wheels that were 5 on 4,25".
The 4 1/4'' lug pattern 17'' 5 lug artillery wheels are 1936 Std. '33-'35 were wire.

 

6 bolt kh on my redrilled 29 roadster. 19 in on back 17 inch on front

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Going on what RICH B post #3 could you make up a reinforcing plate to go on the back side of the hubs. If you went this way you might also need longer studs.

 

This could be another way to go if you can find someone with old disc hubs then have the centre machined to suit. Post #19

.https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/posts/12504364/

 

Thats an interesting way to approach it! Cutting down a rotor. Im guessing probably some machining to make sure the drum doesnt sit too far out.

Redrilling hubs might be the way to go. Ill keep an eye out for F1 hubs or yes, as you say perhaps can reinforce some. Good thing Im not impatient while I work this out! Im waiting on my springs to arrive and Im working on cleaning up the backing plates.

Cheers,
Josh

 

Speaking to some friends today 2 questions arose that hopefully you gents can answer.
1) how many years did that design of F1 hub span? What are the options for years and makes in sense of locating some.

2) Is it possible if we can find a pair, to adapt 34 chev hubs to the ford spindle?

Cheers,
Josh

 

What Im fighting is keeping things legal but Im guessing you just drilled your original hub?
Cheers,
Josh

 

memory says the F1 brakes will work on '47 ford style spindles [with one of the bearings changed]...
think the '34 cheb hubs will fit onto '47 spindles if you find the right bearings and backing plate offset …
or maybe have a machine shop turn your '47 spindles to the '34 specs...

 

If you can find some Chevy hubs and the 47 spindles are smaller you could get adapters like these made up to suit the Chevy bearing, seal and set the hub in the correct position. Or if the 47 spindles are bigger then you can get the spindle turned down to suit Chevy hub. Just thought that the Ford spindle would need checking to see if it is at least as long as the Chevy spindle for this to work.

 

Probably the worst suggestion on this thread but can you build the car and get it inspected with Ford wheels, maybe borrow a set, then just bolt the Chevy wheels on with adapters later? If those wheels are anything like ford you'll probably have to use some sort of support ring for the wire wheels anyway.

 

Thanks for the input fellas. Doing some research on the chevy hubs, bearing wise they dont seem readily available anymore and are mostly new old stock. I could be wrong but may be a poor avenue.
Interestingly researching tonight hk ht and hg holdens here in Aus ( late 60s) ran a 5x 4.25 stud pattern, use the same diameter outer bearing as the ford spindle but a smaller inner bearing which could simply be sleeved. I guess apart from the center ring size to suit the backing plate there may be a difference i depth of the hub allowing the drum to sit too far in or out?

I was reading on the forums here of a company, Wilsons Welding? That sell blank ford hubs drilled to any pattern you want? Somehow using correct hubs seems sensible suit brakes etc etc

As for borrowing wheels then adapting later I suppose it could be an option. I may be able to find someone with wheels to suit.
I dont generally like things like adaptors and spacers for all the known problems with them. But as you say Adam they will require some sort of wire wheel support anyway as the lincoln drum provides nothing of the sort.
Cheers,
Josh

 

Had a machinist friend drill the orginal hubs

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Just a thought. If you want to use the Chevy wheels all round you had best check to see if you can modify what ever back axle you are going to use to take 4 1/4" PCD before you alter the front end. It looks like " bangerbob " used a Chevy KH axle on the rear though if you are using a Ford 30/40s era you might have problems.

 

The rear axles should be ok. Im ( at this stage) running a borg warner which I can redrill the axle hubs and needs shortening anyway. Reason being Im not paying for a winters quick change as friends would have me do, a 9" is overkill, and the BW will easily handle a couple of hundred kw for the jag 6 Im running and new parts and ratios are easy to obtain.
Cheers,
Josh

 

So just an update here and wouldn't mind some guys chipping in on what they see. I borrowed some 34 chev hubs. Cannot be used unfortunately, very strange setup. The hub is 2 pieces either side of the brake drum and studs pressed in and riveted. The offset is all wrong, the chevy spindle has the mounting for the brake bracking plate much further back, picture for reference.




I picked up a set of hk holden wheel hubs. Correct bolt pattern, same outer bearing, inner slightly larger so could be sleeved. Again however sits too shallow. I spaced it with another bearing shell and its about correct distance to allow fitment of the drum. However I fear this would carry the wheel load too far out on the spindle. I would like some thoughts on this.



The other thing was i marked the chevy bolt pattern out on the lincoln drum. It would be getting very close to the hub opening. Any feelings of this being too close?


Starting to think might be better to weld a plate to the wheel and put a new bolt pattern on the wheel itself.
I had spoken to Rex at wheelsmith about making new wheels and I was keen. The $800 per wheel price tag seemed reasonable however that almost doubles with our exchange rate at the moment and then postage so thats out the question for the moment.
Cheers,
Josh

 

All that still sounds like a lot of extra work and money; when a regular old F-1 hub will fit your early Ford spindle without any monkey business, will allow the use of your MT/Boling Bros drum with a simple centering ring on the pilot, and is easily drilled to a smaller pattern as was the hub in the picture. The new holes should also be spot faced on the back side; this re-drilled hub I got at a swap wasn't.

 

Thanks for the reply and yes I think your on the money, just had to look at the other available options. Its just a matter of finding F1 hubs. Im not sure how easy they are to come by over there but I could find nothing here so far. I still may have 1 avenue I can chase up. If anyone is selling a set and wants to ship Id be interested.

Any thoughts on the new suggested bolt pattern getting close to the hub opening? Or should still be ok?

Of interest I see a lot of talk about wire wheel supports when running later brake drums as early Ford had supports machined into the drum face. Looking at the Chevy wheels and drums, seems to be no such provisions.

Cheers,
Josh

 

I have had a couple sets of F-1 hubs that had been changed to a 4-1/2" bolt circle, don't think the difference to your 4-1/4" would be a problem. I'll try and take a look when I get back from Nashville.

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'36 and earlier Chevy 5 lug is the same as early Holden. This '36 Chevy truck has HT front and rear end, '36 Chevy Standard car wheels bolted straight up.

 

1. $800 per new wheel begs the question, wouldn't it make sense to sell or swap the Chevy wheels for Fords? If you lived near me, I'd swap you even, in a heartbeat.

2. Regarding the redrilling of the Lincoln drums -- if thick enough, you could bevel/countersink the existing holes to locate the drum. Would need to machine pretty accurately. Alternately, add a second set of 5@4.25" on the drum and hub, again using flat headed (Allen?) bolting. Intuitively, I don't think using just the five holes as close to the edge of the drum is a problem; but I'll deny I said that! Are you using a dual master cylinder? (Don't some motorcycles have floating discs, with disc ID equal to bolt circle diameter, so only contacting outer 180 degrees of each pin? I guess they have more than five pins, however.)

3. Your limited description of the car has piqued my interest. How about some pictures, or better yet, a build thread?

 

That sounds great, cheers mate.
Josh

 

Your absolutely right, the hk hubs here fit the axle and the wheels no problems. The problem is the wheel flange sits too close to the backing plate to give the lincoln brake drums I have clearance. Looking great by the way!
Cheers,
Josh