Hot Rods Help....Another Y Block question

Yes it has a rope seal . A Dodge 360 can be made to work but I don't use one. It does have a PCV system you can see part of it leading around the back on the distributor side. It feeds a 1965 Chevelle PCV valve below the center carb. Push rods are in and the valve spring pressure is 95 psi.
I will say this. After I have test fitted the crank and it turns with little to no effort I remove it and install the rope seal. I pack it so tight it takes a breaker bar to first turn the crank again before I start with the rods. My GMC's do not leak from the rear main. I use only Best gaskets now or original asbestos old Ford or Pontiac if I can't find and original Military GMC surplus..

 

That is a perfect way to do it.
The rope will always increase initial break away torque,,,no getting around it.
Like I said,,,it is an awesome looking engine,,,I always admire good engine work.
Should be a great running engine !

Tommy

 

Let me be the 3, 4th 5th or something to say this. The lack of a battery in the circuit is probably, very likely to be the cause of the slow turn. I'd bet without seeing it, that your charger doesn't have large enough cables to carry that large amperage, and not suffer voltage drop. If you're really curious, put a voltmete on it at the start while cranking. Or just hook up a battery with adequate cables, then connect the charger in boost mode. Bet the problem disappears

 

Well, I got it out and torn down again. Turning it over by hand and checking clearances as each piece of the rotating assembly was removed. Pulled the timing chain off and the cam thrust was in spec and the cam turned nice and smooth. The crank was still very stiff, so I bit the bullet and took out the pistons and rods. The crank now turns smooth as silk. The connecting rod nuts were a bear to break loose and the bearings all have a shiny spot on the top. And two of the crank journals have a scratch that I can feel with my nail.

So I am assuming I torqued the rod nuts down too much and there must have been a piece of trash on the bearing.

 

You might have the #1 rod cap mixed with the #7 rod cap—-or the# 3 with the # 8 the 8 looks like a 3 ????


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Did you put a battery in it before you pulled it? Picture's of the bearing's?

 

Just an aside.. The flathead I had and several friend's flatheads all run 12 volt battery systems through the 6 volt starter. Main issue is the bendix as stated, but never an issue with my group.
RB

 

No. Because I put the battery charger with 200 amps directly to the starter to turn it over.

Trying to upload a pic.

 

now that you have it out and apart.if you trust them take it back and have them recheck the rod ends and crank throws.make sure to mark the rod caps so as they do not get mixed.remember that if building an engine that will actually be run being close has no place in the assembly.

 

I have emailed them and will give them a call Monday. The rods are sort of mix and match. The rod and cap both have the same number, but I have three No 1 rods, a #3, #5, #7, #6 and I think another #5. What an adventure.

 

All rods in most engines are the same. They are just turned this way or that way for crank clearance. You never order #6 rod for an engine! Back it the day lots of remanufactures would not go by the rod numbers, they just made sure they were turned the right way in relation to the crank and pistons and mix and match stuff.







Bones

 

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but a battery charger, will not give enough power to turn an engine over by itself. Been there and done that. Especially a new engine that has way more friction that an old engine!






Bones

 

No problem Bones. When I get it all back together, I will definitely include a battery to the circuit when I try to start it.

 

oh shit what a fuking mess not sure how to correct that.but it does need correcting so each rod goes in respective hole.the bearings also need to be plastigaged at least to check the clearance between.they do gas engine machining? not motor rebuilding (electric)

 

Yup. I think new bearings and more plastigaging. And they do advertise as a machine shop, with pictures and everything. Seriously, he is a good machinist. It is the idiot (me) that put it together that has issues.......

 

hard to believe they would have allowed the rods being left without marking as to respective holes.been a lot of years but it seems to me that the rods should go in one way meaning there should be a chamfer that faces the counter balance (not facing other rod) as I said may not apply in your case.a book on building a small block would be one of the first things you should aquire .study it.then study again.there should be a ton out there.you do have torque wrench?the proper tools are a necessity a ring compressor is another to aid in dropping pistons in the hole.if you do not own then I am sure you can rent or loan.but do get a book or two and study as each may offer different tips.doing it right will bring you self satisfaction but do it right I will try watching your progress

 

The rods have markings, but they may not have come from that particular block. And you are correct, the rods go in a specific way....with the markings toward the outside of the block. I do have the shop manual and the Y Block rebuilding book. You are absolutely correct about reading it multiple times. Yes on the torque wrench, ring compressor, etc. Always easier to do it the second time...lol

My machinist just emailed me back and we will talk tomorrow. He said it doesn't look too bad, so I at least feel a little better.

 

HI, something to try. take the bearings out of the rods, start with the #1. try to match the MACHINED patterns on the

 

HI, try and match the MACHINED marks on the big end of the rod. the inside, the chamfer, and #1. use good lighting. that is the best I can explain this. put the crank in with a couple of mains, and hang the rod off the side of the block and plastigauge check. do 2 rods at a time. Pete.

 

ALL of them need to go to a machine shop and be sized and correctly marked. Rod sizing is a key part of engine assembly and longevity. Too me what I'm reading is a major f-up.

 

I am not defending anyone here,,and I’m not blaming anyone either.

I think the op said he received this in a basket full of parts.
He said the rods are marked 3 # 1’s,and various other numbers to add up to 8 .
Also,,it had 2 different kinds of pushrods .

So,,,it seems to reason that the previous owner was gathering parts to build this engine from a collection of spares maybe .

Now,,,the machinists guys bored the block and machined the other components to use fro the rebuild.
Perhaps they should have ground off the old number stamping from the rods ?
But,,,that doesn’t mean the rods are bad or machined incorrectly?
Maybe they thought the new owners would restamp the rods ?

The op said that he assembled the engine,,,,and I’m not blaming him for the problem either .
Did the shop assemble the rods on the pistons ?,,,,,are they in correct orientation for the crank,,,,( turned correctly on the rod ),,,
Or even installed in the right direction in the block,,,are the pistons marked front ?

You would be surprised how easy it is to make a visual mistake,,,,very easy .

He stated the rod nuts were super tight,,,,,well,,,,maybe that was the whole problem ?
If the torque wrench was bad or incorrectly set,,,,might have distorted the rods just enough to bind it up .
If the clearance is only .001 or so to start,,,a little distortion goes a long way .

And maybe the rods are not machined correctly,,,it would be a very good idea to check them .
Maybe the rods are tight on the side clearance,,,,a little distortion,,,combined with a tight side clearance could cause a tight assembly as well .

Let your machinists check them all good ,,,at least the crank spins freely ! ,,,and the cam !
Good luck man,,,,let us know what happened !

Tommy

 

@toolnut Any news on this?

 

Thanks for checking egads! I have it all back together and it spins much more smoothly now. I am getting to the point where I am going to test fire, but need to get it all wired up correctly. At the moment the only thing missing is the choke. Of course, that was not in the pile of parts. lol Neither was the resistor, so I had to source that and it took awhile to get the correct 12V one.

So, I am trying to get a choke that I can convert to 12V and being the cheap sob that I am, I don't want to spend $150 for the choke and another $50 for the conversion. Just moving slow to make sure I don't screw something up!

 

I recently built a small block Ford stroker and I was using main studs and a stud girdle. New Scat crank, new Scat rods. As soon as I tightened the main caps up you could not turn the crank with a breaker bar.
I even bought a new set of main bearings even though I had measured both the crank and the main cap bore and the thickness of the bearings. I tried a set of .001 different bearings no change.
In a final attempt I pulled the main studs and used a set of ARP main bolts instead of studs. Bingo ! no more bind. Could turn the crank with one hand. Apparently the main studs or the girdle was putting the crank in a bind. The rest of the engine went together fine so I have a main girdle and stud kit setting on the shelf waiting to be tried again on another block.

 

Who made the girdle,,,,I would suspect that first .
All girdles ares not equal in quality or application .

Tommy

 

First question Ford made a push rod change in about 1960. the late tube style are lighter and stronger I always replace with the late rods. Just as a check when I assemble an engine I install the center main and check rotating torque then a main next to it and check the change in torque and so on any big change in torque between mains need to be checked out. If the clearance is ok you have a block that needs a line hone or a bent crank. do this without a rear main seal.

 

Thanks! The machine shop checked the block and crank. Bored and honed and resurfaced the heads. I believe I am good to go once I get a choke and get it properly wired for 12V.

 

Paul, I put the crank in just like you.... with one exception. I install the bottom half of the seal in the rear main first and the start from the center main and work my way out. I keep the seal lubed with oil. Just keeps from having to do it twice. I’m getting lazy in my old age! Lol


Edit: on Y-blocks and FE Fords I do torque the rear main first with out any seals in the cap, to check.





Bones